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Help[Surname] Re: But what does SPIELDENNER mean? (nt)
in reply to a message by Andy ;—)
Some outlandish thoughts on Spieldenner.
An old German dictionary of mine has the word DENER, which it explains as "denarius". Now I don't think the Germans ever had a coin called a denarius, but I'm open to correction.
However, this word, in various forms, seems to have kicked around Europe and been used to signify money, or sometimes a coin of a certain value. Examples - dinero, Spanish for "money"; denaro, something simlar in Italian; dinar, the currency of the dimembered Yugoslav Republic; deaner, English slang for a shilling.
Could dener have been used in Germany, or parts of Germany, as an everyday word for money, or a particular sum of money? If so Spiel-Dener might be a nickname for a gambler. I'm thinking for comparison of an English surname, Wimpenny, which means "win penny".
Incidentally I've checked for the spelling Spieldener on the web, with positive results.
An old German dictionary of mine has the word DENER, which it explains as "denarius". Now I don't think the Germans ever had a coin called a denarius, but I'm open to correction.
However, this word, in various forms, seems to have kicked around Europe and been used to signify money, or sometimes a coin of a certain value. Examples - dinero, Spanish for "money"; denaro, something simlar in Italian; dinar, the currency of the dimembered Yugoslav Republic; deaner, English slang for a shilling.
Could dener have been used in Germany, or parts of Germany, as an everyday word for money, or a particular sum of money? If so Spiel-Dener might be a nickname for a gambler. I'm thinking for comparison of an English surname, Wimpenny, which means "win penny".
Incidentally I've checked for the spelling Spieldener on the web, with positive results.
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Replies
You are right: "dener" or "denner" is not important, I guess. Now your theory sounds very interesting. But I can't find anything like "dener" or "denner", not even in Grimm's 33 volume Wörterbuch, and they should really have it. All I could find was Old High German (time of Charles the Great) "dennen", which corresponds with the modern word "dehnen" (stretch, spread). Any ideas with that?
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I think we must accept Herr Grimm's monumental work as the last word. On dennen/dehnen I've no idea. I have found another spelling of the name, Spieldiener. Could this have something to do with Dienen, alluding to service of some sort?
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SPIELDIENER is a good one! Grimm has: "die knaben wurden sogleich ergriffen, von ihren spieldienern und erziehern abgesondert." Sagen 431
"The boys were seized at once and separated by their spieldieners and educators (or: teachers)." So a spieldiener would have been something like a private playing tutor?
"The boys were seized at once and separated by their spieldieners and educators (or: teachers)." So a spieldiener would have been something like a private playing tutor?
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