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Help[Opinions] Re: Naming laws?
in reply to a message by TERESE
The name...
- has to be recognisable as a first name.
- can't be a surname.
- has to be unambiguously male or female.
- can't compromise the well-being of the child.
- can't have a relation to something "evil" (for example Judas).
- can't be offensive to religion.
- can't be a place name.
- can't be a title.
Like I said, it could very well be that Steffi would be permitted, though legit names like for example Beauregard have been rejected before. It would be up to the person who gets to record the name whether Steffi would be legit or not.
- has to be recognisable as a first name.
- can't be a surname.
- has to be unambiguously male or female.
- can't compromise the well-being of the child.
- can't have a relation to something "evil" (for example Judas).
- can't be offensive to religion.
- can't be a place name.
- can't be a title.
Like I said, it could very well be that Steffi would be permitted, though legit names like for example Beauregard have been rejected before. It would be up to the person who gets to record the name whether Steffi would be legit or not.
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Replies
Whoa. We've discussed naming laws here before, and some are for them and some are against them. It seems like more are in favor than against. I'm against any kind of naming laws. But these you've listed...whoa...WAY WAY too strict. WAY WAY too much of an infringement of personal freedom. I'd flip if I had to live with such laws.
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I think they're great for the most part! :D I think they got loosened a bit in the last few years, though, otherwise there's no explanation for names like Büb, Galaxina, Pumuckel, Windsbraut ("bride of the wind"), Sundance, Cougar, Pepples and Frieden Mit Gott Allein Durch Jesus Christus ("peace with only God through Jesus Christ"). The only thing I find debatable is the thing about the "evil" names. I'm glad they're for the absence of surnames and titles.
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No unisex names, place names, or surnames?? That's nuts. I mean I don't like excessive use of any of these, but to complete rule them out would wipe out a lot of respectable names. And what's so wrong with Sundance? I mean I did hear word names are considered very silly in German, but a lot of people feel they are names at their purist because all names start out with a meaning.
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well...
In Germany, the thing about using surnames as first names has never been normal, and unlike in English (my opinion) many German surnames are way too terrible to allow people to call their child this, for example Schafflhuber, Mittermaier, Schulz, and names like Röckenwagner. I think it makes sense in Germany to forbid using surnames, while I love that it's possible in Great Britain etc. because there are many English surnames that I find totally cool and OK as first names.
I find most of the German naming laws reasonable, the only thing I hate is that it totally depends on who the freaking clerk at the register office is because I've heard so many stories. Many of them don't allow a name that they haven't heard before, and then again there are some who allow names like San Diego which I find more ridiculous than for example Tuula (Finnish) which a friend of my mother wanted to use for her baby, but couldn't.
In Germany, the thing about using surnames as first names has never been normal, and unlike in English (my opinion) many German surnames are way too terrible to allow people to call their child this, for example Schafflhuber, Mittermaier, Schulz, and names like Röckenwagner. I think it makes sense in Germany to forbid using surnames, while I love that it's possible in Great Britain etc. because there are many English surnames that I find totally cool and OK as first names.
I find most of the German naming laws reasonable, the only thing I hate is that it totally depends on who the freaking clerk at the register office is because I've heard so many stories. Many of them don't allow a name that they haven't heard before, and then again there are some who allow names like San Diego which I find more ridiculous than for example Tuula (Finnish) which a friend of my mother wanted to use for her baby, but couldn't.
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All names start with a meaning, but the meaning becomes less obvious the more the name is used, and sometimes is lost on the way with very old names, as in the case of Mary.
The use of names, and what's seen as silly or not silly, acceptable or non acceptable, is culture-relative. In Japan most names have clearly recognizeable meanings and some Japanese people are surprized that in the West quite a few people don't really know what their name means.
The use of names, and what's seen as silly or not silly, acceptable or non acceptable, is culture-relative. In Japan most names have clearly recognizeable meanings and some Japanese people are surprized that in the West quite a few people don't really know what their name means.
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Kind of OT...
In the Arabic-speaking world most people have names with a clear meaning and when I tried to explain that my name didn't really have that they sometimes had a hard time to understand that. What one older woman found to be most surprising was the fact that if my parents had given me a name without a meaning how could they know that that name was suitable for me. In her opinion names reflect the personality or traits of the name carrier.
In the Arabic-speaking world most people have names with a clear meaning and when I tried to explain that my name didn't really have that they sometimes had a hard time to understand that. What one older woman found to be most surprising was the fact that if my parents had given me a name without a meaning how could they know that that name was suitable for me. In her opinion names reflect the personality or traits of the name carrier.
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Megan in France
I remember now. We knew an English family in France. Their first daughter was born in the UK, but their second daughter was born in France. They wanted to name her Megan. They had a hard time because it was not on an approved list and they had to go to court. The French didn't like it because it sounded like a car or something like that, but they did win in the end but I am not sure how.
I remember now. We knew an English family in France. Their first daughter was born in the UK, but their second daughter was born in France. They wanted to name her Megan. They had a hard time because it was not on an approved list and they had to go to court. The French didn't like it because it sounded like a car or something like that, but they did win in the end but I am not sure how.
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Never thought of that! Well, one more name I can't use (Renault Megane is a popular car here).
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You need to know that...
they aren't very strict when it comes to following these laws, not in most cases anyway. I've met two German girls named Lilith (which would be an evil name) and Salomé. To be considered "evil" it would have to be something really bad like Hitler.
To be considered surnamey it would have to be something like Schmidt or Müller, something like Jackson or Mason would work, I guess. Please note that we generally don't use surnames as first names in Germany. It's very odd to us. Same with occupation names (unless they are English ones like Mason).
Names like Sundance are indeed considered very silly in Germany. We aren't used to them and nobody would want to use them. There's a German actress named Wolke (German word for cloud) and the name does sound silly to me. An English word name would definitely be allowed, I've met a Summer and a Johanna Tiger (this happens to mean the same in German).
You are allowed to use a unisex name, you just need to use a feminine/masculine middle name. So you could have a Kai Isabella Johansson but not a Kai Taylor Johansson. If you loved two unisex names I guess you can use them but need to use two middle names as in Kai Taylor Isabella Johansson or something like that.
Usually, when someone forbids you to use the name you get to use it when you go to court. Unless it's something really bad. That's what happened when someone wanted to give her daughter the middle name Tiger some time ago. Since then I've met one more girl with that middle name (Johanna Tiger) and it is now allowed to use.
Most of the time you just have to prove that the name has been used before as a given name and you can use it.
they aren't very strict when it comes to following these laws, not in most cases anyway. I've met two German girls named Lilith (which would be an evil name) and Salomé. To be considered "evil" it would have to be something really bad like Hitler.
To be considered surnamey it would have to be something like Schmidt or Müller, something like Jackson or Mason would work, I guess. Please note that we generally don't use surnames as first names in Germany. It's very odd to us. Same with occupation names (unless they are English ones like Mason).
Names like Sundance are indeed considered very silly in Germany. We aren't used to them and nobody would want to use them. There's a German actress named Wolke (German word for cloud) and the name does sound silly to me. An English word name would definitely be allowed, I've met a Summer and a Johanna Tiger (this happens to mean the same in German).
You are allowed to use a unisex name, you just need to use a feminine/masculine middle name. So you could have a Kai Isabella Johansson but not a Kai Taylor Johansson. If you loved two unisex names I guess you can use them but need to use two middle names as in Kai Taylor Isabella Johansson or something like that.
Usually, when someone forbids you to use the name you get to use it when you go to court. Unless it's something really bad. That's what happened when someone wanted to give her daughter the middle name Tiger some time ago. Since then I've met one more girl with that middle name (Johanna Tiger) and it is now allowed to use.
Most of the time you just have to prove that the name has been used before as a given name and you can use it.
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Unisex names can be used if the second name is clearly male or female. The surname rule is mostly for German surnames. I mean, no one would object to an Ashley or a Jackson for example because they're commonly used as first names in other countries.
I'm guessing word names like Faith and Hope would also be all right (I'm pretty sure of it), again because they're considered normal names in other countries. After all, Windsbraut went through, too. I'm not exactly sure where they draw the line here. I've never seen a source that goes into details.
Again, not sure about place names. Trenton or Verona would go through, Bad-Herrenalb or Clausthal-Zellerfeld wouldn't. It depends on the general usage, I'd say.
I'm guessing word names like Faith and Hope would also be all right (I'm pretty sure of it), again because they're considered normal names in other countries. After all, Windsbraut went through, too. I'm not exactly sure where they draw the line here. I've never seen a source that goes into details.
Again, not sure about place names. Trenton or Verona would go through, Bad-Herrenalb or Clausthal-Zellerfeld wouldn't. It depends on the general usage, I'd say.
This message was edited 3/4/2009, 8:03 PM
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Steffi Graf's real name is Stefanie as it is of every Steffi I have ever known. I just can't imagine someone with the legal name of Steffi. But, oh well, Leni is one of the most popular names here right now and it is a diminutive like Steffi. It's just not common at all to use nicknames as first names.
Just because a name is listed here doesn't automatically make it a first name that is also used in the legal sense. More German examples that I've noticed are Uschi, Seppel and Didi (?). I doubt anyone bears these as whole names as well.
Just because a name is listed here doesn't automatically make it a first name that is also used in the legal sense. More German examples that I've noticed are Uschi, Seppel and Didi (?). I doubt anyone bears these as whole names as well.
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Thanks
Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't know :)
Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't know :)
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