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Help[Opinions] Shylock
I really like this as a girl's name paired with a more elegant/traditional mn (currently I like Shylock Eulalia), but I wonder if it's too eccentric or has too much of a negative connotation...
Hypothetically, do you think it's usable? What middle names would you pair it with?
Hypothetically, do you think it's usable? What middle names would you pair it with?
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You want to know what's strange, when I was taught Merchant of Venice I was taught Shylock was the victim and that everyone else was horrible and I can't see the play in any other light.
But in all seriousness, no I don't really think it's usable. There is the Hebrew name Shai/Shay that is pronounced like the word Shy (my friend's little brother is named Shai) that could work for you.
But in all seriousness, no I don't really think it's usable. There is the Hebrew name Shai/Shay that is pronounced like the word Shy (my friend's little brother is named Shai) that could work for you.
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That's right
Shylock was a negative character when he was written. After people became more enlightened--ie didn't hate the Jews/blame them for everything--Shylock morphed into an almost sympathetic character. It really depends on who is directing the play. That's what makes Shakespeare so great. He'll give you the beginnings but it really depends on how stage direction and acting. /English major Shakespeare love.
Where I've lived (especially in NYC) Shylock is still an insult. If you told my uncle, "Hey, I just named my baby Shylock. Isn't it pretty?" He would get very offended.
But this is all pointless because I see OP has been convinced. :)
Shylock was a negative character when he was written. After people became more enlightened--ie didn't hate the Jews/blame them for everything--Shylock morphed into an almost sympathetic character. It really depends on who is directing the play. That's what makes Shakespeare so great. He'll give you the beginnings but it really depends on how stage direction and acting. /English major Shakespeare love.
Where I've lived (especially in NYC) Shylock is still an insult. If you told my uncle, "Hey, I just named my baby Shylock. Isn't it pretty?" He would get very offended.
But this is all pointless because I see OP has been convinced. :)
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I was taught the same thing about Shylock. Yet at the same time we also learned about the ways in which he was portrayed in a negative or racist light.
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no
Shylock is not just a name with a bad association. It has become a word all on its own, meaning a dishonest and manipulative person. Exactly like naming somebody Crook or Shyster or Swindler.
Also, in some circles the word shylock is considered to have anti-semitic overtones.
Shylock is not just a name with a bad association. It has become a word all on its own, meaning a dishonest and manipulative person. Exactly like naming somebody Crook or Shyster or Swindler.
Also, in some circles the word shylock is considered to have anti-semitic overtones.
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You're right, that makes sense. I guess I can't really argue with centuries of negativity. Still, it seems unfair to me that the name is perceived as so overwhelmingly anti-semitic.
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Uh
How is that unfair to you? The name was created for a character who personified every negative Jewish stereotype in the book, and has only been associated with those stereotypes since its creation.
I'm sorry, this whole post is rather ridiculous.
How is that unfair to you? The name was created for a character who personified every negative Jewish stereotype in the book, and has only been associated with those stereotypes since its creation.
I'm sorry, this whole post is rather ridiculous.
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It is way too associated with Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice.' In that play, Shylock is a very stereotypically and negatively portrayed Jew.
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I hope this is in jest... ?
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It is way worse. So, so, so worse. It is a slur against Jewish people. The whole character is a man who represents Jews at their worst.
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Can you come up with another (character's) name that would be comparably offensive to use?
Because I understand what you're saying about the character...but I can't really grasp why using the name for a real person would actually be perceived as a slur...
Because I understand what you're saying about the character...but I can't really grasp why using the name for a real person would actually be perceived as a slur...
This message was edited 4/27/2012, 4:04 PM
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Well, it's sort of like how people don't really use the name Adolf anymore because of Hitler. It's mainly the negative associations the name has now.
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Ok, I'm not really arguing the negative connotation; I'm trying to understand the extremity of the reaction. Because in my mind it doesn't really connect.
Hitler was real; he lived 70 years ago.
Shylock was fictional; he was created 400 years ago.
Hitler persecuted millions of Jews.
Shylock was a Jew who argued for his own humanity.
Yes, Shylock was portrayed as a villain, but he lived in an obviously prejudiced society...
Hitler was real; he lived 70 years ago.
Shylock was fictional; he was created 400 years ago.
Hitler persecuted millions of Jews.
Shylock was a Jew who argued for his own humanity.
Yes, Shylock was portrayed as a villain, but he lived in an obviously prejudiced society...
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Villain or victem lashing out to fight for rights, it's still too strong of a conotation. Especially with the other meanings and uses Shylock gained after the play debuted. Just because a name belongs to a fictional character doesn't mean that it doesn't get a strong image with it. Romeo and Juliet are star crossed lovers, even if they're dating someone else. Voldemort is hatred and racism personified. Hamelet can't make up his mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shylock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shylock
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Ha ha. Point. I would totally judge parents who named their child Voldemort.
I wonder if that's happened...
I wonder if that's happened...
This message was edited 4/27/2012, 7:32 PM
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That's it
You've had ample explanation. Now you're just trying to stir things up. We're not biting any more. Please move along now. Any more and it's trolling.
You've had ample explanation. Now you're just trying to stir things up. We're not biting any more. Please move along now. Any more and it's trolling.
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I apologize
I apologize if I offended you.
I really do like the name, independent of the character; my confusion was sincere.
RoxStar finally managed to convince me it's a bad idea, though.
I apologize if I offended you.
I really do like the name, independent of the character; my confusion was sincere.
RoxStar finally managed to convince me it's a bad idea, though.
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No need
You're good. You can have your own opinion on a name. That's fine. It's the *repetition* on a sensitive topic that had the potential to get out of hand. :-)
Happy week-end everyone. I'm out of here.
You're good. You can have your own opinion on a name. That's fine. It's the *repetition* on a sensitive topic that had the potential to get out of hand. :-)
Happy week-end everyone. I'm out of here.
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it's different than Adolf too...
In that Adolf was widely used by many people before Hitler came along. Shylock, so far as I know, was made up specifically for the character in the play.
In that Adolf was widely used by many people before Hitler came along. Shylock, so far as I know, was made up specifically for the character in the play.
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That's true. I didn't think about that. Yeah, Shylock is more than just bad associations. You're right. It's a slur in and of itself now, unfortunately.
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and...
It's not like there was a bunch of people called Shylock that suddenly had to come to terms with the fact that their name had been appropriated for an insult against an entire group. There's only one Shylock.
It's not like there was a bunch of people called Shylock that suddenly had to come to terms with the fact that their name had been appropriated for an insult against an entire group. There's only one Shylock.
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Huh!
I actually never knew this. Shame. Shylock is a nice sounding name.
I actually never knew this. Shame. Shylock is a nice sounding name.
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Are you talking about the word itself (in the sense that it's actually been historically used as a slur) or the prevailing negative stereotype of the character from Merchant of Venice?
...because I've never seen it used negatively or referenced (insultingly) outside of the play...
...because I've never seen it used negatively or referenced (insultingly) outside of the play...
This message was edited 4/27/2012, 4:09 PM
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