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Help[Facts] probable error in data base
It always bothered me that this site, which I think is one of the most accurate such sites available had apparently not checked back far enough when researching the name Cormac. The definition on this site is far too modern to be accurate, not to mention unpleasent, and it is arguably quite clear that the root cor, which which is shared by Corbin means raven.
Just The Perfect Name by Yvonne de La Paix states that it means son of the raven and Baby Names for the 90s by Barbara Kay Turner agrees that it means Raven's son. to name just two sources. A Dictionary of First Names by Patrick Hanks goes further: and suggest using the root corb rather than cor, suggesting it means "son of corruption" from another Gaelic which meant "something is not right in the council" and referring specifically to political treachery or dishonesty, but this "corb" postdates the usage of the names Cormac by several centuries, and thus could not be related to the name.
Just The Perfect Name by Yvonne de La Paix states that it means son of the raven and Baby Names for the 90s by Barbara Kay Turner agrees that it means Raven's son. to name just two sources. A Dictionary of First Names by Patrick Hanks goes further: and suggest using the root corb rather than cor, suggesting it means "son of corruption" from another Gaelic which meant "something is not right in the council" and referring specifically to political treachery or dishonesty, but this "corb" postdates the usage of the names Cormac by several centuries, and thus could not be related to the name.
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You state that it is "arguably quite clear" that the root cor means "raven". How is this clear? I am asking because you declined to demonstrate how the cor in Cormac is etymologically the same to the cor in Corbin: you only referred to two generic baby name books, both of which apparently fail to provide arguments for the relation. This is in contrast to the book by Patrick Hanks that you mentioned, which at least did provide arguments for the meaning that is mentioned in his book - this illustrates that that book is at least a little bit more scientific in nature than the two generic baby name books that you mentioned.
You know, just because the cor in Corbin looks similar and has a more pleasant meaning, doesn't mean that it's the 100% accurate meaning for Cormac. I'll have you know that the French corbeau that Corbin was derived from, is ultimately derived from Latin corvus "raven". So the etymology of the cor in Corbin is ultimately Latin in origin. With your claim of Cormac meaning "son of raven", it would mean that Cormac is a name that is half Latin, half Gaelic (because the element mac is 100% Gaelic). This is unlikely, because any Latin influence in the Gaelic language (let alone Gaelic names) would have come during and after the introduction of Christianity in Ireland (since Latin was the language in which bibles were written and masses were held in those days). It could only have been then (i.e. with the introduction of Christianity), because Ireland (unlike Britain) was never occupied by the Romans and so had very little exposure to the Roman culture and language (prior to the introduction of Christianity).
You know, just because the cor in Corbin looks similar and has a more pleasant meaning, doesn't mean that it's the 100% accurate meaning for Cormac. I'll have you know that the French corbeau that Corbin was derived from, is ultimately derived from Latin corvus "raven". So the etymology of the cor in Corbin is ultimately Latin in origin. With your claim of Cormac meaning "son of raven", it would mean that Cormac is a name that is half Latin, half Gaelic (because the element mac is 100% Gaelic). This is unlikely, because any Latin influence in the Gaelic language (let alone Gaelic names) would have come during and after the introduction of Christianity in Ireland (since Latin was the language in which bibles were written and masses were held in those days). It could only have been then (i.e. with the introduction of Christianity), because Ireland (unlike Britain) was never occupied by the Romans and so had very little exposure to the Roman culture and language (prior to the introduction of Christianity).
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Addition.
Oh, I see you took the bit about Patrick Hanks from the following Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormac
The bit you quoted from the article wasn't even in annotated in the article itself as coming from Patrick Hanks. If you didn't know already, Wikipedia isn't the best of sources.
Also, the Wikipedia article claims that the first element of the name Cormac *can* come from an Old Gaelic word for "raven". I think this claim is unlikely, and here is why:
There are three Gaelic languages nowadays: Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, all of which are Insular Celtic languages. Other Insular Celtic languages (of the branch called Brythonic) are Breton, Cornish and Welsh. The Gaelic languages and Brythonic languages are all related to each other, because they all descend from (Proto-)Celtic.
Now, in both old and modern Irish - as well as modern Breton, Cornish and Welsh - the word for "raven" is bran. It is ultimately derived from Proto-Celtic branos meaning "raven". Only Manx and Scottish Gaelic deviate from this: in Manx, feeagh is the word for "raven", whereas in Scottish Gaelic it is fitheach (in both cases it is derived from Old Irish fiach, which also means "raven"). As you can see, both bran and feeagh/fiach/fitheach don't remotely look like cor - if Cormac was to mean "son of raven", the name should instead have been Branmac or Fiachmac something along those lines.
Only in the Scots language (which is different than Scottish Gaelic, in that Scots is Germanic in origin whereas Scottish Gaelic is Celtic in origin) is there something that resembles cor. In the Scots language, corbie or corby is the word for "raven". However, in this instance, the word is derived from Latin corvus "raven".
Oh, I see you took the bit about Patrick Hanks from the following Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormac
The bit you quoted from the article wasn't even in annotated in the article itself as coming from Patrick Hanks. If you didn't know already, Wikipedia isn't the best of sources.
Also, the Wikipedia article claims that the first element of the name Cormac *can* come from an Old Gaelic word for "raven". I think this claim is unlikely, and here is why:
There are three Gaelic languages nowadays: Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, all of which are Insular Celtic languages. Other Insular Celtic languages (of the branch called Brythonic) are Breton, Cornish and Welsh. The Gaelic languages and Brythonic languages are all related to each other, because they all descend from (Proto-)Celtic.
Now, in both old and modern Irish - as well as modern Breton, Cornish and Welsh - the word for "raven" is bran. It is ultimately derived from Proto-Celtic branos meaning "raven". Only Manx and Scottish Gaelic deviate from this: in Manx, feeagh is the word for "raven", whereas in Scottish Gaelic it is fitheach (in both cases it is derived from Old Irish fiach, which also means "raven"). As you can see, both bran and feeagh/fiach/fitheach don't remotely look like cor - if Cormac was to mean "son of raven", the name should instead have been Branmac or Fiachmac something along those lines.
Only in the Scots language (which is different than Scottish Gaelic, in that Scots is Germanic in origin whereas Scottish Gaelic is Celtic in origin) is there something that resembles cor. In the Scots language, corbie or corby is the word for "raven". However, in this instance, the word is derived from Latin corvus "raven".
This message was edited 10/22/2012, 3:27 AM
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*hearty applause*
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Thanks.
Perhaps I was a tad too vehement in my messages, but to be honest, I thought it was insulting to accuse Mike C. of not having researched far back enough for the name Cormac. It's essentially accusing him of being unscientific or sloppy with the names he adds to the database, while I know how much careful research and work he clearly invests into this website. Besides, how are they to know that he hadn't checked every source available to him? They just assumed something and apparently took it for a fact.
And to top it all off, the person themselves lists questionable sources and fails to provide proper arguments for their claim. Apparently they can't even 1) distinguish between reliable and unreliable sources and 2) do a proper thorough research themselves. So then it's a bit rich to accuse someone else of doing improper research.
Perhaps I was a tad too vehement in my messages, but to be honest, I thought it was insulting to accuse Mike C. of not having researched far back enough for the name Cormac. It's essentially accusing him of being unscientific or sloppy with the names he adds to the database, while I know how much careful research and work he clearly invests into this website. Besides, how are they to know that he hadn't checked every source available to him? They just assumed something and apparently took it for a fact.
And to top it all off, the person themselves lists questionable sources and fails to provide proper arguments for their claim. Apparently they can't even 1) distinguish between reliable and unreliable sources and 2) do a proper thorough research themselves. So then it's a bit rich to accuse someone else of doing improper research.
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