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Help[Opinions] Re: Jemima
in reply to a message by Bex
I think Jemima goes perfectly with Theodora! To me, they seem like the same kind of name. They're like "posh" British sisters who have ponies and an aga.
Jemima isn't useable in the US so I haven't thought too much about it. I don't love the sound or nickname possibilities but I'm so biased I can't trust my impressions of the name. All I think is "commodified racist artifact."
Anyway, that's wonderful news about your friend. My best friend has been trying for years too. :(
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Jemima isn't useable in the US so I haven't thought too much about it. I don't love the sound or nickname possibilities but I'm so biased I can't trust my impressions of the name. All I think is "commodified racist artifact."
Anyway, that's wonderful news about your friend. My best friend has been trying for years too. :(
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I didn't know about the US connotation, but it's not an issue here. I'm inclined not to have a nickname for Jemima at all. The one big mistake I made with Theodora was starting the nickname Theo. I changed my mind and don't really use it now, but hubby only calls her Theo, so he introduces her to everyone as Theo, so now no one apart from me, mum and gran actually call her Theodora :(
I'm so insanely excited for my friend. We both started trying for a baby around the same time and Theodora's now 16 months old. Now i'm really hoping that I end up getting pregnant soon so our babies will be close in age!
I'm so insanely excited for my friend. We both started trying for a baby around the same time and Theodora's now 16 months old. Now i'm really hoping that I end up getting pregnant soon so our babies will be close in age!
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That's why I didn't bother bringing up the fact that Jemima is unusable in the US due to the Aunt Jemima association. It's been mentioned many times here, as I recall. It's also been mentioned by people not from the US that it's not unusable where they are. I figure many have learned from this board that it's unusable in the US and why. Perhaps some haven't (I remember that VeKalvin thought it was a brand of candy until I advised him otherwise), but either way, there's no reason it should matter to anyone not American, and I know that you're Australian.
But the Aunt Jemima association is a darn shame for us Americans, and it's such a cute, sparkly, and pretty name.
But the Aunt Jemima association is a darn shame for us Americans, and it's such a cute, sparkly, and pretty name.
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Eh...I don't think so. Even without the racist association, I would hate it. I think it sounds doofy.
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ETA: Is it the pancake brand association?
This message was edited 12/22/2017, 5:03 PM
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Yes. Since the old advertising is no longer used, and the image has been changed, a lot of people, especially younger, people, may not be aware of the Aunt Jemima character's racist origins. I hesitate to post any of the old advertisements here because they are so offensive. You can find out easily by Googling "Aunt Jemima racist" and "Aunt Jemima old racist ads".
But I once had a book on the subject. Yes, an entire book on Aunt Jemima and its racist origins. It explained how an ad man, back between 1910 and 1920, dreamed up an entire back story for the character, that she had been a slave on a plantation before The Civil War, and her favorite thing to do was to make pancakes for the white folks, and how after the war a Northern company came to her, asking for her pancake recipe, and presto Aunt Jemima pancake mix was born. It was a huge ad campaign that ran for years.
So yeah, it's the mammy stereotype of a black woman being sexless, overweight, and with no identity but to serve white people and be happy doing it.
But I once had a book on the subject. Yes, an entire book on Aunt Jemima and its racist origins. It explained how an ad man, back between 1910 and 1920, dreamed up an entire back story for the character, that she had been a slave on a plantation before The Civil War, and her favorite thing to do was to make pancakes for the white folks, and how after the war a Northern company came to her, asking for her pancake recipe, and presto Aunt Jemima pancake mix was born. It was a huge ad campaign that ran for years.
So yeah, it's the mammy stereotype of a black woman being sexless, overweight, and with no identity but to serve white people and be happy doing it.
This message was edited 12/22/2017, 5:18 PM
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Oh, thank you for explaining. I'd never seen it before, and upon a quick google search I was like, "What's so wrong with pancakes?" God, those ads are horrendous. Do you think Jemima will ever again be usable?
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Hard to say. Maybe in another hundred years or so.
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Yes, but it's a little more than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
In the UK it's most associated with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and The Tale of Jemima Puddle-Duck - we actually used to call a cousin of mine Jemima Puddle-Duck. I think it's quite sweet as a name, but certainly not usable in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
In the UK it's most associated with Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and The Tale of Jemima Puddle-Duck - we actually used to call a cousin of mine Jemima Puddle-Duck. I think it's quite sweet as a name, but certainly not usable in the US.
This message was edited 12/22/2017, 5:15 PM
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yes! ...
And they have a sister named Pippa! And they have horsey faces and wear outlandish hats in public! And they probably have boyfriends named Alfie and Rupert. (Pippa isn't old enough for boyfriends.)
And they have a sister named Pippa! And they have horsey faces and wear outlandish hats in public! And they probably have boyfriends named Alfie and Rupert. (Pippa isn't old enough for boyfriends.)
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Lol, you’re spot on with Rupert (not sure if the sitcom Miranda airs anywhere in the US), but Alfie isn’t vaguely posh!
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Love Miranda! I watch in on either Acorn TV or BritBox via Amazon Prime in the US.
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never heard of Miranda ...
I only remember somebody making fun of Rupert on this board a long time ago as a posh name. Maybe Alfie is a "chav" one of the horse sisters took up with out of some weird kind of spitefulness?
I only remember somebody making fun of Rupert on this board a long time ago as a posh name. Maybe Alfie is a "chav" one of the horse sisters took up with out of some weird kind of spitefulness?
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Alfie isn’t chav either! It’s pretty middle of the road, in my opinion.
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so ...
What are some boys' names considered "posh" like they could be Rupert or Alfie's pals?
What are some boys' names considered "posh" like they could be Rupert or Alfie's pals?
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Rupert and Alfie (Alfred) could be friends with...
- Felix (this is the name of a friend of mine's brother, though they're delightful and down to earth as a family so I almost feel bad for including this!)
- Hugo
- Francis
- Julian
- Giles
- Leopold (someone else I know, though his family are actually German)
- Casper (Jasper is more of a dog name I think?)
For names of some really posh people, have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Made_in_Chelsea_cast_members (I can't stand most of them, the people I mean, but I've met Jamie Laing and he's actually a very nice chap.)
- Felix (this is the name of a friend of mine's brother, though they're delightful and down to earth as a family so I almost feel bad for including this!)
- Hugo
- Francis
- Julian
- Giles
- Leopold (someone else I know, though his family are actually German)
- Casper (Jasper is more of a dog name I think?)
For names of some really posh people, have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Made_in_Chelsea_cast_members (I can't stand most of them, the people I mean, but I've met Jamie Laing and he's actually a very nice chap.)
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Lol.
I go to bed and now there's a story line for my children. lol.
I go to bed and now there's a story line for my children. lol.
This message was edited 12/22/2017, 11:36 AM
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Just out of curiosity...
...what would be some chav-y names?
...what would be some chav-y names?
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from an American perspective ...
Chantelle: This is very much seen as a black name, along with Chanel and Shante and similar names. They were popular in the seventies and eighties and then fell very much to the wayside.
- Shanice: The same as Chantelle. Also Shaniqua.
- Toni (full name) I happen to think this is pretty cute. But there's no denying it's fairly dated. You don't see young Tonis hardly at all. There was one in high school with me.
- Shelby: This was very popular in the nineties and early 2000's, especially as a name in the south and west. I don't think it has much of a particular image here except perhaps a bit southern or countrified/cowgirl.
- Leanne: This seems to have hit its peak in the early seventies. My cousins who are that age had tons of classmates named Leanne. It's got a countrified feel to it also.
- Liam: Definitely seen as upper-class here though of course it isn't confined to that group. Very, very popular here now.
- Lee: I'm assuming this is a male name? Usually this spelling, on a first name, is a male one here. I think it might be seen as a bit country, but it's been out of style since before I was born, it seems. Still resonably popular for a middle name for girls and boys.
- Jordan: Very popular here, and one of very few truly unisex names, about equally popular on both sexes. Doesn't seem to hold any special image.
- Dylan: Was more popular ten or so years ago, but it isn't exactly out of style by a long way. No special image.
Chantelle: This is very much seen as a black name, along with Chanel and Shante and similar names. They were popular in the seventies and eighties and then fell very much to the wayside.
- Shanice: The same as Chantelle. Also Shaniqua.
- Toni (full name) I happen to think this is pretty cute. But there's no denying it's fairly dated. You don't see young Tonis hardly at all. There was one in high school with me.
- Shelby: This was very popular in the nineties and early 2000's, especially as a name in the south and west. I don't think it has much of a particular image here except perhaps a bit southern or countrified/cowgirl.
- Leanne: This seems to have hit its peak in the early seventies. My cousins who are that age had tons of classmates named Leanne. It's got a countrified feel to it also.
- Liam: Definitely seen as upper-class here though of course it isn't confined to that group. Very, very popular here now.
- Lee: I'm assuming this is a male name? Usually this spelling, on a first name, is a male one here. I think it might be seen as a bit country, but it's been out of style since before I was born, it seems. Still resonably popular for a middle name for girls and boys.
- Jordan: Very popular here, and one of very few truly unisex names, about equally popular on both sexes. Doesn't seem to hold any special image.
- Dylan: Was more popular ten or so years ago, but it isn't exactly out of style by a long way. No special image.
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Haha Liam is not upperclass. haha
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I always find it hilarious when Rox talks about popularity or name labels. She considers Genevieve "hipster "
This message was edited 12/23/2017, 7:21 PM
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I know people around my age with all of these names so I guess they're not as dated here. In regards to names being "black", I've read (and to some extent agree) that people are divided more by class than they are race in the UK, so names tend to be divided in that respect too. I wouldn't have thought of Chantelle and Shanice as belonging to a particular race at all.
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Wow, I can't imagine living in a country that isn't dramatically divided by race. I mean, the class system isn't great, but I sorta feel like it beats what we've got going in the US right now.
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Isn't there a ton of racism in the UK, though?
Not to downplay the racism here, but it's not like the UK only has class differences.
Not to downplay the racism here, but it's not like the UK only has class differences.
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good point! yes.
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There is, and it’s awful. But class isn’t dependent on race is what I’m saying. There’s an often cited statistic here now that white, working class men are the most disadvantaged group.
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Yeah, I might have explained that in a wonky way. I get what you're saying.
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