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Help[Opinions] Re: Sigalit
in reply to a message by foxgloves
Well, the thing about anglophones with names of other languages is, many anglophones don’t speak foreign languages (especially uncommonly spoken ones in an anglophone setting, like Hebrew, in this case); so naturally they’re not gonna know how to correctly pronounce it in another language.
“Whatever you are, be a good one.” - Abraham Lincoln
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/157557
“Whatever you are, be a good one.” - Abraham Lincoln
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/157557
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i know, but you can not know without assuming. many outside English speaking countries know to ask for a pronunciation, rather than assume. if someone has enough knowledge to judge that a name is not English, it doesn't take a genius to realize that oh wait, maybe it doesn't go by English pronunciation rules.
also, even if an anglophone does not know another language, they can (and should, if they're able to) at least be familiar with a few pronunciation rules of other kinds of languages- not even specific languages, but language groups. like, how if a non English and non French word/name ends with -e, it is most likely not silent, and so said as a new syllable. not to better assume a pronunciation you're unsure of- but part to have a better chance of reading it and saying it properly when told how to, and mainly for the sake of being able to understand how weird English pronunciation rules really are, and that yes, there are languages besides English. that there's a whole world out there.
i've met plenty of people who've been stumped by mine and my family's names, but have gone "ah, ok", when told/explained how it's said; and then i've met plenty more people who seemed to not comprehend how our names could exist.
also, even if an anglophone does not know another language, they can (and should, if they're able to) at least be familiar with a few pronunciation rules of other kinds of languages- not even specific languages, but language groups. like, how if a non English and non French word/name ends with -e, it is most likely not silent, and so said as a new syllable. not to better assume a pronunciation you're unsure of- but part to have a better chance of reading it and saying it properly when told how to, and mainly for the sake of being able to understand how weird English pronunciation rules really are, and that yes, there are languages besides English. that there's a whole world out there.
i've met plenty of people who've been stumped by mine and my family's names, but have gone "ah, ok", when told/explained how it's said; and then i've met plenty more people who seemed to not comprehend how our names could exist.
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I agree with your post completely. Still, sadly, a lot of people are not at all culturally educated. Where I live (a very undiverse part of the USA), people’s eyes glaze over at any non-English name. Even Spanish names get butchered!
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i'm relieved that somebody at least understands!
and i completely understand why some people wouldn't want to use a foreign name for the reason you said. i myself used to be a little annoyed at my family for giving so much of us such hard names (i would've been named Csaba if i was a boy...imagine...), and thought that if i had kids in the US, i'd use simper names. now, while i wouldn't use sounds/letters that don't exist in English (ex. Zd- or Cs-), i think that i don't want to limit myself for the sake of people who can't take the two seconds to try to learn. especially since i plan to live in a city, not a suburb like where i grew up (where Spanish names got butchered despite there being so many people with Spanish names! geez).
and i completely understand why some people wouldn't want to use a foreign name for the reason you said. i myself used to be a little annoyed at my family for giving so much of us such hard names (i would've been named Csaba if i was a boy...imagine...), and thought that if i had kids in the US, i'd use simper names. now, while i wouldn't use sounds/letters that don't exist in English (ex. Zd- or Cs-), i think that i don't want to limit myself for the sake of people who can't take the two seconds to try to learn. especially since i plan to live in a city, not a suburb like where i grew up (where Spanish names got butchered despite there being so many people with Spanish names! geez).
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Any English speaker would ask someone how to pronounce their name if they didn’t know it and would do their best to pronounce it correctly. It’s not that English speakers are ignorant of the fact that there are other languages and accents, it’s that there’s really no need for an English speaker to know every different way of pronouncing things. People just aren’t that uptight about names for the most part. It’s nice to be considerate about how to pronounce other people’s names, but I honestly think you’re being a bit uppity about this. Sorry, but an anglophone’s world doesn’t revolve around foreign name pronunciations anymore than any other person’s does.
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i don't think they should know every way to pronounce something. i literally clarified that i think they should know a few different language rules not so much for the sake of knowing, but for the attitude adjustment that comes from being exposed to different ways of doing things. my best friend doesn't need this- can't speak a second language besides English, and she's been plenty stumbled over my family's names when she first heard them, not to mention our words, but she didn't get hung up over it, like so many others i've met.
in my country, people definitely aren't acquainted with a dozen different languages, but we are AWARE that so much more exists than just ours'. so we ask, and quickly adjust. sometimes, we already know how to say it, but that's not the point.
but after growing up in America, i can't say the same for Americans. nearly half of my Italian class couldn't wrap their heads around how "weird" Italian looks- and if you didn't know, Italian is very similar to English. it's nice that you, being named Morgan, haven't come across such uptight people.
in my country, people definitely aren't acquainted with a dozen different languages, but we are AWARE that so much more exists than just ours'. so we ask, and quickly adjust. sometimes, we already know how to say it, but that's not the point.
but after growing up in America, i can't say the same for Americans. nearly half of my Italian class couldn't wrap their heads around how "weird" Italian looks- and if you didn't know, Italian is very similar to English. it's nice that you, being named Morgan, haven't come across such uptight people.
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Well, having grown up in America, your second paragraph doesn’t seem accurate to most Americans I know. But whatever.
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well-said ..
most people with any home training at all make at least a sincere effort to get people's names right; however, some sounds just don't translate very well.
And it's not just a failing among Anglophones, if it's even a failing. One of the ladies who owns the nail salon where I like to go is Vietnamese (actually all the staff is) and she's never been able to manage my name. She makes an effort but she can't get much closer than something that sounds like Sahlah. Her name is Kim, and I probably don't say it exactly the way she does either. It's just one of those things.
most people with any home training at all make at least a sincere effort to get people's names right; however, some sounds just don't translate very well.
And it's not just a failing among Anglophones, if it's even a failing. One of the ladies who owns the nail salon where I like to go is Vietnamese (actually all the staff is) and she's never been able to manage my name. She makes an effort but she can't get much closer than something that sounds like Sahlah. Her name is Kim, and I probably don't say it exactly the way she does either. It's just one of those things.
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there's a huge, huge difference between someone being literally unable to say a foreign name because they cannot make the sound, and someone being "unable" to say it because they're so baffled by it/make no effort. obviously, i do not blame anybody for their accent. i'm honestly surprised you don't understand that simple difference. and for the record, "Sigalit" does not involve any sounds that don't translate well into English, or that are even strange to English.
i myself had a speech impediment when i was a kid, and couldn't say a few common English sounds (though it's my first language). far more effort was expected of me to say words that were near impossible for me than anyone gave to pronounce my or my family's names. and i had the easiest first name of all my siblings, one that happened to make sense by English rules as well.
yes, most people with home training do make a sincere effort (again, that's my whole point, the matter of effort) but unfortunately, many Americans don't get this kind of training. consideration is not common enough an American value.
i myself had a speech impediment when i was a kid, and couldn't say a few common English sounds (though it's my first language). far more effort was expected of me to say words that were near impossible for me than anyone gave to pronounce my or my family's names. and i had the easiest first name of all my siblings, one that happened to make sense by English rules as well.
yes, most people with home training do make a sincere effort (again, that's my whole point, the matter of effort) but unfortunately, many Americans don't get this kind of training. consideration is not common enough an American value.
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