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Help[Opinions] Re: Maverick
in reply to a message by Cayden
For me a typical giggly action movie name or somewhat western theme with cowboys and Native Americans.
P.S.: And by the way, what's actually the correct term for Native Americans?
Red Indians, American Indians, First Americans or rather Native Americans?
In Germany, we say Cowboys & Indianer; whereas Indian citizens are Indians and live in India
(Indische Staatsangehörige sind Inder und leben in Indien)
(Indianer - Inder)
P.S.: And by the way, what's actually the correct term for Native Americans?
Red Indians, American Indians, First Americans or rather Native Americans?
In Germany, we say Cowboys & Indianer; whereas Indian citizens are Indians and live in India
(Indische Staatsangehörige sind Inder und leben in Indien)
(Indianer - Inder)
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
Thanks alot for the comprehensive support (-:
-nt-
-nt-
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Native Americans, Native Alaskans (who often don't prefer Native American), Indigenous, or First Nations are the appropriate terms.
There is a bit of a cowboy conman vibe, maybe due to the movie Maverick.
There is a bit of a cowboy conman vibe, maybe due to the movie Maverick.
This message was edited 2/4/2018, 4:35 AM
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Depends on where you live, in America it is Indians, which is being slowly phased out, and Native American! First American or First Nation is used Canada, along with the other two but not as much while American Indians, I think is used more Europe? I rarely hear anyone use that term unless the person is trying to make sure we are talking Indians from America and not Indians from India! So idk! Hope that helps, the problem is that there is no universal name for them, so it is all up to the individual to use what they think is the best term!
This message was edited 2/4/2018, 4:33 AM
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Indians is not the appropriate terminology, as it arises from explorers who believed America to be the Indies, which was incorrect. Some native Americans will use the word because it sells an antiquated nostalgic idea of the American Indian, but its really not considered appropriate language.
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I'm aware, but that doesn't stop it from being widely used and still comes to mind when talking about Native Americans! The thing about language it is very hard to phase out certian words with out taking generations to do so, but like I said it is being phased out but very slowly! Yes, many Americans are aware that term is incorrect but is so intertwined with our culture and language it takes a lot of work to completely get rid of it with out having slip up and say the wrong word by accident or forgetting that is not the correct terms.
So just give it a little time and patience and no one would be using that term anymore!
So just give it a little time and patience and no one would be using that term anymore!
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“Native Americans” is most commonly used in the U.S., and “First Nations” in Canada. The terms “Native”, “Indigenous” and “Aboriginal” are also used. Some of the people I know find “Aboriginal” insulting because it’s more often associated with Australia, but it’s a small number. Some of the rest think those people are a little extreme and kind of looking for reasons to be insulted. (My husband and his family are Mohawk and his extended family are very close. Many are among my best friends. They give each other grief about what their people should be called sometimes.)
ALMOST ALL of them find the word “Indian” to be an insult, but they’ll sometimes use it when making fun of each other, to add a little extra rile to the teasing. They can use it, we can’t. It’s one of those words. It doesn’t come from any dislike of people from India, it’s just that nobody likes to be called anything they’re not. Just like if you call somebody gay when they’re really straight, they still feel insulted even if they have no problem with gay people. Or if you call somebody Mexican when they’re really Colombian, etc.
There’s an extra bite to the word here, partly because back in the 1870s, a very controversial act was passed called “The Indian Act”. It’s a repulsive bit of legislature that’s been a catalyst for hard feelings and reprehensible government behaviour ever since.
ALMOST ALL of them find the word “Indian” to be an insult, but they’ll sometimes use it when making fun of each other, to add a little extra rile to the teasing. They can use it, we can’t. It’s one of those words. It doesn’t come from any dislike of people from India, it’s just that nobody likes to be called anything they’re not. Just like if you call somebody gay when they’re really straight, they still feel insulted even if they have no problem with gay people. Or if you call somebody Mexican when they’re really Colombian, etc.
There’s an extra bite to the word here, partly because back in the 1870s, a very controversial act was passed called “The Indian Act”. It’s a repulsive bit of legislature that’s been a catalyst for hard feelings and reprehensible government behaviour ever since.
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To throw in my two cents... I grew up near a reservation and using "Indian" was a huge no-no. I know a couple of teachers who were fired for using it in the classroom setting.
I have always used Native American, and never had trouble.
But, I also know that Lakin5 is right... people still use "Indian" in spit of knowing better.
I have always used Native American, and never had trouble.
But, I also know that Lakin5 is right... people still use "Indian" in spit of knowing better.
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Not sure if this is towards Ariane or me? If it is towards me, like I said I don't agree with using the term Indian for Native American but it is a word that is hard to get rid of completely, most young people don't use the term but a lot of older do, take my parents for example they grew in the 50s/ 60s and Indian was considered the correct term at the time, but I grew up in the late 90s / 2000s / early 2010s so Native American was more used, but I still heard the term Indian from time to time.
So I'm not condoning it, but I do think we need to give people so slack as the culture and language is more to blame and not any one person, as most know that it is bad but it bleeds so much into the culture that it is hard to get rid of, like a parasite you can't get rid of just yet you need time to wear it down until it is destroyed.
So I'm not condoning it, but I do think we need to give people so slack as the culture and language is more to blame and not any one person, as most know that it is bad but it bleeds so much into the culture that it is hard to get rid of, like a parasite you can't get rid of just yet you need time to wear it down until it is destroyed.
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American Indian is politically correct...
I studied American Indian courses in college, it was actually my focus. All the professors who taught my Native American courses were American Indians and were active tribal members.
In the US the term that most American Indians prefer is actually their tribes name but for a general term Native American or American Indian are both equally acceptable.
When the term Native American first came about it was invented by a college professor who was not an American Indian. When the term was first derived most tribal members disliked the term feeling it was once again an attempt of control by white people of their culture or even at worst an attempt to destroy what little bit of treaty laws that were still followed by the US government because in all the paperwork they are called Indians. Tribal members are used to being taken advantage of by the US government so they were worried it would be used against them if they let go of the term Indian completely for the term Native American. So at first most American Indians preferred the term American Indians to Native Americans. There were surveys conducted which found this out. Most recent studies have found that the younger generation of American Indians either prefer or don't dislike the term Native American but once again most tribal members prefer you to reference their specific tribe.
So overall Native American and American Indian are both generally acceptable in the US and individual tribal members each have a different preference although generally younger members are more likely to prefer Native American while older members prefer American Indian.
As others have mentioned in Canada First People or First Nations are the most common acceptable terms.
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I studied American Indian courses in college, it was actually my focus. All the professors who taught my Native American courses were American Indians and were active tribal members.
In the US the term that most American Indians prefer is actually their tribes name but for a general term Native American or American Indian are both equally acceptable.
When the term Native American first came about it was invented by a college professor who was not an American Indian. When the term was first derived most tribal members disliked the term feeling it was once again an attempt of control by white people of their culture or even at worst an attempt to destroy what little bit of treaty laws that were still followed by the US government because in all the paperwork they are called Indians. Tribal members are used to being taken advantage of by the US government so they were worried it would be used against them if they let go of the term Indian completely for the term Native American. So at first most American Indians preferred the term American Indians to Native Americans. There were surveys conducted which found this out. Most recent studies have found that the younger generation of American Indians either prefer or don't dislike the term Native American but once again most tribal members prefer you to reference their specific tribe.
So overall Native American and American Indian are both generally acceptable in the US and individual tribal members each have a different preference although generally younger members are more likely to prefer Native American while older members prefer American Indian.
As others have mentioned in Canada First People or First Nations are the most common acceptable terms.
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This message was edited 2/5/2018, 12:37 AM
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The term “Indians” may still get used but the only way it’s goin to die out is by instructing people that it’s not the correct term. When people come into my fabric store asking for “Indian” fabric I always clarify and ask “Native American?” because Indian fabric and Native American fabric look very different, and those customers should be subtly told so. Ariane asked what the proper term was, so if you don’t agree with using Indian I’m not sure why you would suggest it? If you don’t condone it’s usage why perpetuate it by telling someone else it’s an acceptable term?
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Because many know it is the wrong but it doesn't stop it use by accident, and especially from older people where the term was more common plus there is lots of none updated text books and old media which used those terms and you have to activately correct yourself any time it is used. For kids growing up around older people who use it, it is hard to not hear them use the word, so you can't help but say, so you have to self censor your whenever you have language slip up.
I did say that it was being slowly phased out, but that doesn't stop older people from using it and it can cause younger people to use it, but after generations it would be fully phased out, we just haven't gotten to that point yet that why I put there because there is still a generation that still use it!
Political correctness takes time, it doesn't happen over night and a person who grew up in a time where something was correct but no it wasn't is hard to unlearn so slips up should be taken lightly but not those who do intentionally which should be more hammered in, but it is being hammered to the point so those who slip up know that they are wrong so they punish themselves for using it accidentally so any more is just overkill.
Language is complex, word usage is hard to destroy completely so it takes generations to do so just do that, but being in translational period of it, it is hard to learn than unlearn certian words are brians just can't do like a switch!
I did say that it was being slowly phased out, but that doesn't stop older people from using it and it can cause younger people to use it, but after generations it would be fully phased out, we just haven't gotten to that point yet that why I put there because there is still a generation that still use it!
Political correctness takes time, it doesn't happen over night and a person who grew up in a time where something was correct but no it wasn't is hard to unlearn so slips up should be taken lightly but not those who do intentionally which should be more hammered in, but it is being hammered to the point so those who slip up know that they are wrong so they punish themselves for using it accidentally so any more is just overkill.
Language is complex, word usage is hard to destroy completely so it takes generations to do so just do that, but being in translational period of it, it is hard to learn than unlearn certian words are brians just can't do like a switch!
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I understand what you're saying. My great grandma was using the term "colored" in her 90s in the naughties. For her, that was acceptable because you weren't supposed to use the term negro anymore. For her, she had already become more politically correct and it was still changing. She was deaf and blind and died at 100.
I think a middle aged person should be corrected, but someone who is 80/90 years old and going to die soon anyway, what's the point?
I think a middle aged person should be corrected, but someone who is 80/90 years old and going to die soon anyway, what's the point?
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Same, just as long as you know they don't have any distrimantion intention with their words, it is fine because they still use the word that was political correct for the time so it can easily be forgiven!
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When I was a child in the 1960s, my father used to call African-Americans "colored". I can remember him doing so. He did, however, at some point, transition to calling them "black". I guess I'll give him props.
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Yeah, my parents still go back and forth on which term to use for Native Americans, so times I find it worth correcting them other times I'm too tired to do use! Plus they watch lots of old timey shows so they still hear it from time to time!
This message was edited 2/4/2018, 11:08 AM
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Yes I understand that the transition takes time, and that people need not be berated for accidentally using it on occasion. I’m just confused as to why you would suggest it as a valid option to someone trying to make a distinction. Especially when you yourself admit that it’s use it being phased out
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Because they had them all listed out on their OP and I just wanted to point how they all were being used, just because it isn't the correct term is still a term that is being used. And them being from Germany they won't have them same context as an American would, so if an American did it I be quick to correct them but those who not the Americans or a place with a native group, I feel more obliged to explain things more because they maybe not know what is and isn't the correct term.
I didn't put a lot of thought into my original comment but I thought just putting that it is being phased out would be enough to cover it with any more explaination but apparently not? It is a complicated issue so I can't do all the explaining with whole lot of research on the topic, just giving my point of view as well as others to give more context to everything!
I guess I have a tendency to over explain stuff! Haha!
I didn't put a lot of thought into my original comment but I thought just putting that it is being phased out would be enough to cover it with any more explaination but apparently not? It is a complicated issue so I can't do all the explaining with whole lot of research on the topic, just giving my point of view as well as others to give more context to everything!
I guess I have a tendency to over explain stuff! Haha!
This message was edited 2/4/2018, 10:14 AM
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Also I didn't full understand the full context of the OP, but I wrote what I thought was the best answer for the time! I thought they asked about what terms were being used, and not what is the most correct, and said how they term Indians was being phased out as back then it was a correct term and I was saying how is not anymore!
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You’re right that Native American or Indigenous is the preferred term in most of the United States. With that said, I used to live in South Dakota (which has a very high Native population) and Natives there really did prefer “American Indian.” That term was used everywhere (by indigenous people), while Native American and other terms were not.
So it really depends on where you are.
So it really depends on where you are.
This message was edited 2/4/2018, 9:12 AM
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That’s a good point... it does also vary by region. There are so many distinct First Nations groups spread across such a wide territory that it’s nearly impossible to come to a complete concensus.
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True. At least in SoDak, saying “Native American” gives the impression that you’re an outsider—not from the area—who is out of touch with the local American Indian population. It is perceived as racist in a patronizing way. I was specifically told *not* to say it when interning for the state census data center.
Of course, in other states / countries this is totally different. It really is complex.
Of course, in other states / countries this is totally different. It really is complex.
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It's fraught with complexities because they aren't the same people's, they are being grouped as if they are.
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And also their relationship with each other many not be friendly, or tribes with radically different views on things, so it hard to get a concenses of what is acceptable and was isn't! Plus the low number of Native Americans compared to other groups makes it harder for every opinion to be heard.
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Yeah a lot of tribal members dislike the term Native American and prefer American Indian, the younger generation is more okay with Native American than the older generation but as you said it also varies regionally and of course on a personal level. In my experience tribal members always prefer to be referred by their tribe's name.
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Ariane asked about the correct term. I was joining the conversation
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