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Help[Facts] Re: Any information about the name Satenig?
in reply to a message by clevelandkentevans
Just a note in advance: Satenig appears to be either a variant transcription of Սաթենիկ (Satenik), or a deliberately chosen Latinate spelling by Satenig Kevorkian (1900-1968) that better reflects the Western Armenian pronunciation of the aforementioned name.
This is correct. The name consists of the Armenian noun սաթ (sat) meaning "(black) amber" combined with the Armenian diminutive suffix իկ (ik).
However, it should be noted that at least one source theorises that the name might ultimately be of Scythian origin. Scythian is a group of Eastern Iranian languages, which includes the extinct Alanian (or Alanic) and the modern Ossetian.
Sources used:
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%8D%D5%A1%D5%A9%D5%A5%D5%B6%D5%AB%D5%AF (in English; features the IPA pronunciations)
- Satenik: http://armenian.name/index.php?a=term&d=2&t=1350 (in English)
- Սաթենիկ (Satenik): http://armenian.name/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=1537 (in Armenian)
- Сатеник (Satenik): https://imya.com/name/13650 (in Russian)
- սաթ (sat) meaning "(black) amber": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%BD%D5%A1%D5%A9 (in English)
- իկ (ik) the Armenian diminutive suffix:
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-%D5%AB%D5%AF (in English)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diminutives_by_language#Armenian (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages (in English)
I am sorry, but that is incorrect. Queen Satenik (rather than Satenig) of Armenia lived in the 2nd century BC, which is long before the advent of Christianity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satenik (in English)
Agreed. The Alans were an Iranian people who spoke Alanian (or Alanic), which was an Eastern Iranian language. The Armenian language is not at all part of the Iranian language tree, so it would make no sense for an Alan princess to be given an Armenian name at birth. Why would Alan parents (and royal ones at that!) give their daughter a name that is completely foreign to their language and culture (of which they were likely fiercely proud)?
"Unless her mother was of Armenian descent," you might say, but that is quite unlikely - even if she in fact was! Given the all-powerful role of men in that era, the father most likely had final (and sole) say in the naming of his children. He would have insisted on giving his daughter an Alan name, rather than an Armenian name in honour of her Armenian heritage through her mother. Not necessarily out of contempt for the Armenian language and culture or something like that: it could have been as simple as for the practical reason that his daughter was to be princess of the Alans, not princess of the Armenians. As a born representative (of sorts) of the Alan people, it would make much more sense for her to have an Alan name. This is also why her name was later changed to an Armenian one upon marriage, as she had now become a representative of the Armenians.
In summary: Queen Satenik must have been given an Alan name at birth, which she bore until her marriage (at least officially and in public - her close relatives might have continued to call her by her birth name in private). Unfortunately, so far it seems that her birth name has been lost to time.
Sources used:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans#Language (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages#Alanian (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_language (in English)
Forchta in biuonga quamon ouer mi, in bethecoda mi thuisternussi.
In ic quad: "uuie sal geuan mi fetheron also duuon, in ic fliugon sal in raston sal?"
This is correct. The name consists of the Armenian noun սաթ (sat) meaning "(black) amber" combined with the Armenian diminutive suffix իկ (ik).
However, it should be noted that at least one source theorises that the name might ultimately be of Scythian origin. Scythian is a group of Eastern Iranian languages, which includes the extinct Alanian (or Alanic) and the modern Ossetian.
Sources used:
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%8D%D5%A1%D5%A9%D5%A5%D5%B6%D5%AB%D5%AF (in English; features the IPA pronunciations)
- Satenik: http://armenian.name/index.php?a=term&d=2&t=1350 (in English)
- Սաթենիկ (Satenik): http://armenian.name/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=1537 (in Armenian)
- Сатеник (Satenik): https://imya.com/name/13650 (in Russian)
- սաթ (sat) meaning "(black) amber": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%BD%D5%A1%D5%A9 (in English)
- իկ (ik) the Armenian diminutive suffix:
• https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-%D5%AB%D5%AF (in English)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diminutives_by_language#Armenian (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages (in English)
I am sorry, but that is incorrect. Queen Satenik (rather than Satenig) of Armenia lived in the 2nd century BC, which is long before the advent of Christianity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satenik (in English)
Agreed. The Alans were an Iranian people who spoke Alanian (or Alanic), which was an Eastern Iranian language. The Armenian language is not at all part of the Iranian language tree, so it would make no sense for an Alan princess to be given an Armenian name at birth. Why would Alan parents (and royal ones at that!) give their daughter a name that is completely foreign to their language and culture (of which they were likely fiercely proud)?
"Unless her mother was of Armenian descent," you might say, but that is quite unlikely - even if she in fact was! Given the all-powerful role of men in that era, the father most likely had final (and sole) say in the naming of his children. He would have insisted on giving his daughter an Alan name, rather than an Armenian name in honour of her Armenian heritage through her mother. Not necessarily out of contempt for the Armenian language and culture or something like that: it could have been as simple as for the practical reason that his daughter was to be princess of the Alans, not princess of the Armenians. As a born representative (of sorts) of the Alan people, it would make much more sense for her to have an Alan name. This is also why her name was later changed to an Armenian one upon marriage, as she had now become a representative of the Armenians.
In summary: Queen Satenik must have been given an Alan name at birth, which she bore until her marriage (at least officially and in public - her close relatives might have continued to call her by her birth name in private). Unfortunately, so far it seems that her birth name has been lost to time.
Sources used:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans#Language (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages#Alanian (in English)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_language (in English)
In ic quad: "uuie sal geuan mi fetheron also duuon, in ic fliugon sal in raston sal?"
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Replies
Most Armenian nobles appear to have Iranian names -Armenian had no written form at the time and Armenia was often a client state of Persia, or Parthia, before being completely absorbed. Official records were therefore in old Persian cuneiform and official names usually Iranian. Don't forget it's not uncommon for cultures to have a naming tradition dominated by names of foreign origin.
However, this history seems more like a fabricated romance, like Virgil's and Geoffrey of Monmouth's, or a folk tale, so an Armenian name invented for the story recorded is likely.
However, this history seems more like a fabricated romance, like Virgil's and Geoffrey of Monmouth's, or a folk tale, so an Armenian name invented for the story recorded is likely.
This message was edited 11/15/2021, 11:08 PM
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