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Help[Opinions] Re: Salome, Sabbath and Odessa /names that feel Jewish but are not used by jews
in reply to a message by Rosebeth
What about Sabbath seems disrespectful?
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Replies
Odessa: Meh. Decent name.
Salome: It's a good name, I guess. Shalom, Salome...if you want to put a more modern twist on the name, I guess. But then again, Shalom as a name has very strong Orthodox connotations to me.
Also, Manipura:
Shabbat/Sabbath/Shabbos/whatever is a very important holiday. It's not *the* most important (Yom Kippur bears that honour; yes, our most important holiday is a fast day that's supposed to be joyous), but I'd say that it's up there with Christmas or whatever. When Shabbat and another holiday, say Rosh Hashana, the new year, overlap, in general, Rosh Hashana's rules are modified to fit Shabbat, not the other way around.
Also, just because it's holy doesn't mean you'd name your kid that. Orthodox Jews don't say the name of God, and in fact spell it "G-d". "Hashem" is used in everyday speech. All those holidays are treated with great respect. Also, I mean, what if the kid turns out to be evil? You don't want it to be associated with something holy, powerful.
From what I can tell, Christianity doesn't treat names with the same respect as Orthodox Jews. According to Chabad, some orthodox Jews won't say the name of a guy named Shalom in the bathroom because it's one of God's names.
PS: Shabtai, according to Wikipedia, probably doesn't have any religious significance. But if it does, it's "someone born on Shabbat".
PPS: Yes, I chose to call myself "Deborah B." If you don't get the joke, look up the meaning of the name Deborah. Unfortunately, it's not my real name.
Salome: It's a good name, I guess. Shalom, Salome...if you want to put a more modern twist on the name, I guess. But then again, Shalom as a name has very strong Orthodox connotations to me.
Also, Manipura:
Shabbat/Sabbath/Shabbos/whatever is a very important holiday. It's not *the* most important (Yom Kippur bears that honour; yes, our most important holiday is a fast day that's supposed to be joyous), but I'd say that it's up there with Christmas or whatever. When Shabbat and another holiday, say Rosh Hashana, the new year, overlap, in general, Rosh Hashana's rules are modified to fit Shabbat, not the other way around.
Also, just because it's holy doesn't mean you'd name your kid that. Orthodox Jews don't say the name of God, and in fact spell it "G-d". "Hashem" is used in everyday speech. All those holidays are treated with great respect. Also, I mean, what if the kid turns out to be evil? You don't want it to be associated with something holy, powerful.
From what I can tell, Christianity doesn't treat names with the same respect as Orthodox Jews. According to Chabad, some orthodox Jews won't say the name of a guy named Shalom in the bathroom because it's one of God's names.
PS: Shabtai, according to Wikipedia, probably doesn't have any religious significance. But if it does, it's "someone born on Shabbat".
PPS: Yes, I chose to call myself "Deborah B." If you don't get the joke, look up the meaning of the name Deborah. Unfortunately, it's not my real name.
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Reading my post again, I think disrespectful probably wasn't the right word. But I definitely feel a bit uncomfortable about people using this as a name. It's a sacred day with so much significance and symbolism for Jewish people, and using it as a name just seems... wild.
But I'm not going to speak for Jewish people here. I'm a christian myself and totally okay with using Easter as a name, for example (not that I'd ever use it). I do know, however, that my husband's Jewish family would not be alright with Shabbat or a variation being used as a name.
But I'm not going to speak for Jewish people here. I'm a christian myself and totally okay with using Easter as a name, for example (not that I'd ever use it). I do know, however, that my husband's Jewish family would not be alright with Shabbat or a variation being used as a name.
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It sounds like they would also disapprove of it being used by Jews (like as שבתאי) and wouldn't consider it ethnic? Are they a particular denomination? What is their native language (if not Hebrew), and is it a word/concept in that language (as far as you know)?
This message was edited 9/30/2023, 3:28 AM
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They would also disapprove of it being used by Jews, yes. Because the concept of using the name of a sacred time as a name for an individual is a strange concept to them, I think. They're (Ashkenazi) Haredi Jews (but my husband doesn't identify as being Haredi anymore) and their native languages are German and Russian. The German word would be Sabbat. Sabbatical is a word that's used in German. I can't be sure about Russian, my knowledge of Russian isn't big enough to say anything useful about that. German isn't my first language either, so I could be missing something there as well.
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Ok. It looks like the Russian word for Saturday is related to Sabbath (it's Суббота), and the (old but not current?) word for Sunday basically meant "rest". I find this interesting, as a name/etymology nerd...Bob Dylan's Hebrew name was שבתאי (Shabtai); his paternal grandparents were Jews from Odessa, and I think his maternal grandparents would have been (Lithuanian) Ashkenazi Haredi Jews. So I am still a little confused, but I guess it is just a thing. Thanks for answering my questions!
This message was edited 9/30/2023, 10:33 AM
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Because the Sabbath is a sacred and Holy day
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That's part of the reason it's used as a name by religious people, though (sort of like Noel or Natalia were originally used in reference to Christmas babies)? Jews use it too, in Hebrew?
In English it's similar to "holiday" which is why sabbatical is "time off work" but the reason it'd be synonymous with Sunday or Saturday even in secular European use is because of traditional respect for religious observance of a day of rest. It's originally a loan word from Hebrew, but it's a very old multicultural one. I'm not understanding how that's disrepectful (unless there's a specific group/culture within these larger groups that sees any name relating to holidays or Hebrew-origin as disrepectful, or some connotation I'm missing, I guess, which is why I asked). I'd understand more why Jews might be weirded out by Adonai, for example.
In English it's similar to "holiday" which is why sabbatical is "time off work" but the reason it'd be synonymous with Sunday or Saturday even in secular European use is because of traditional respect for religious observance of a day of rest. It's originally a loan word from Hebrew, but it's a very old multicultural one. I'm not understanding how that's disrepectful (unless there's a specific group/culture within these larger groups that sees any name relating to holidays or Hebrew-origin as disrepectful, or some connotation I'm missing, I guess, which is why I asked). I'd understand more why Jews might be weirded out by Adonai, for example.
This message was edited 9/29/2023, 1:47 PM
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