New Post
Search
Help[Facts] Re: Micheal
in reply to a message by Magick Toad
Is this a misprint or are you really referring MICHEAL?
Now MICHAEL means "Who is like God?", and this is a rethorical question. The answer is: "No one!" and it implies: Only the living God could help me in my trouble of having no children (or at least not as many as my vicious neighbour, who was starting to tease me saying Go didn't love me and I had probably done some wrong). None of the other gods could help in this situation, not Baal and not Astarte, who were maybe favoured by the other neighbour.
So the name is a confession as well as praise.
This should andswer your question.
Andy ;—)
Now MICHAEL means "Who is like God?", and this is a rethorical question. The answer is: "No one!" and it implies: Only the living God could help me in my trouble of having no children (or at least not as many as my vicious neighbour, who was starting to tease me saying Go didn't love me and I had probably done some wrong). None of the other gods could help in this situation, not Baal and not Astarte, who were maybe favoured by the other neighbour.
So the name is a confession as well as praise.
This should andswer your question.
Andy ;—)
1
Replies
That is one weird answer...
1
Not really! If someone in the situation Andy describes wanted her - more likely, his - son to go through life with a Yah! Boo! Sucks! name, then Michael would fit perfectly.
The problem is that the name wasn't, presumably,invented by the delighted parents since it's used for one of the few angels in the old testament. So, either it's a Yah! Boo! Sucks! name used as a kind of challenge to the enemy - he was a warrior archangel, whatever that might be - (like little boys boasting that My dad can thump your dad), or it's a remnant of a polytheistic past in which Michael himself was a god. In which case it's a statement. Who is like god - that's me!
The problem is that the name wasn't, presumably,invented by the delighted parents since it's used for one of the few angels in the old testament. So, either it's a Yah! Boo! Sucks! name used as a kind of challenge to the enemy - he was a warrior archangel, whatever that might be - (like little boys boasting that My dad can thump your dad), or it's a remnant of a polytheistic past in which Michael himself was a god. In which case it's a statement. Who is like god - that's me!
1
Hi,
this is very interesting!
As far as I know, in general it was the mother who gave names to the children, not the father. But I am not quite sure about this.
Now to the archangel MICHAEL: As far as I can see, his tradition is fairly young. It first appears in the book of Daniel chapt. 7. which is dated 2nd Century B.C.E.
There are 10 "real" persons in the Hebrew bible by the name MICHAEL, and the tradition to the books concerned is a lot older than Daniel. You'll also find MICHAYA(HU, which means the same except it has the name YHWH in it.
Do you have any evidence that the archangel MICHAEL should be older than the personal name MICHAEL? Do you know anything about any polytheistic tradition with MICHAEL as a god? That would be very interesting!
But until then I believe that Michael is just a name like Jonathan or Raffael, made up by happy mothers for their children. Or do you have an explanation for the name of the archangel RAFFAEL as a former god? I'll stick to "God has healed (me from being childless)". This is how a great many Hebrew names work.
Andy ;—)
this is very interesting!
As far as I know, in general it was the mother who gave names to the children, not the father. But I am not quite sure about this.
Now to the archangel MICHAEL: As far as I can see, his tradition is fairly young. It first appears in the book of Daniel chapt. 7. which is dated 2nd Century B.C.E.
There are 10 "real" persons in the Hebrew bible by the name MICHAEL, and the tradition to the books concerned is a lot older than Daniel. You'll also find MICHAYA(HU, which means the same except it has the name YHWH in it.
Do you have any evidence that the archangel MICHAEL should be older than the personal name MICHAEL? Do you know anything about any polytheistic tradition with MICHAEL as a god? That would be very interesting!
But until then I believe that Michael is just a name like Jonathan or Raffael, made up by happy mothers for their children. Or do you have an explanation for the name of the archangel RAFFAEL as a former god? I'll stick to "God has healed (me from being childless)". This is how a great many Hebrew names work.
Andy ;—)
1
The most difficult thing is to find evidence for the polytheistic past of the ancient Hebrews! The not-so-ancient Hebrews were very diligent editors ... but it is possible that Michael and the lads - Satan too, of course - were among the Elohim. Which also raises more ???s than it solves. And we're drifting rapidly off topic!
1
It is just that I find it a lot more simple. Michael = "who is like God", meaning that Michael, the Arch angel, was created by God to His own image, warrior against evil, like God is, beautiful in image and character, like God is. Of all warriors and beautiful creatures, Michael is the one who comes closest to being like God. So when making it a rhetorical question "who is like God" you have 2 possible Answers, 1.- "no one is", for the belief that no one is like God or 2.- "I am" -since I was named after arch angel Michael, who is like God-
The part I find weird (as in I don't get it) is this,
"implies: Only the living God could help me in my trouble of having no children"... (is that really implied?) and that neighbour story which is now, followed by Anneza's comparison to someone wanting his/her - son to go through life with a Yah! Boo! Sucks! name-...
I never heard about Michael being a former god, so that is new to me. But again, there is that implication by Andy: RAFFAEL "God has healed (me from being childless)". All I see is "God has healed", be it healed for whatever specific case the parents see fit. Or maybe no reason at all. God has healed, because that is what He does...???
It felt like I owed more to my comment than just leaving at "weird answer". By no means did I intend to be disrespectful :o)
Magia.
The part I find weird (as in I don't get it) is this,
"implies: Only the living God could help me in my trouble of having no children"... (is that really implied?) and that neighbour story which is now, followed by Anneza's comparison to someone wanting his/her - son to go through life with a Yah! Boo! Sucks! name-...
I never heard about Michael being a former god, so that is new to me. But again, there is that implication by Andy: RAFFAEL "God has healed (me from being childless)". All I see is "God has healed", be it healed for whatever specific case the parents see fit. Or maybe no reason at all. God has healed, because that is what He does...???
It felt like I owed more to my comment than just leaving at "weird answer". By no means did I intend to be disrespectful :o)
Magia.
1
Hi!
I think we are talking about two different questions:
1. What was the original name giving motive?
2. Why was the archangel later called Michael?
ad 1.: Old Testament scholars agree in saying that it was a name first given by parents praising God.
ad 2.: I haven’t read anything about this, but it is sure worth considering, whether maybe the name was given to the archangel due to some tradition that existed before. And maybe in doing this the personal name was re-interpreted the way suggested. I will try to find out whether there is any evidence for this. But if you start talking about God himself bestowing the name on the real archangel, I’ll be out of the game, I’m afraid …
RAFFAEL: Of course all the name says is: “God has healed.” We have to complete the sentence, but talking about a child’s name, we’ll have to think of the child: Either the child was sick and has now been healed (this would have to be a very instant sort of healing as names were usually given right after birth), or else it would be the mother who was healed. But why would she name the child Raffael if the healing didn’t have anything to do with the child? Or am I on the wrong track and there are other options I just don’t see?
Andy ;—)
I think we are talking about two different questions:
1. What was the original name giving motive?
2. Why was the archangel later called Michael?
ad 1.: Old Testament scholars agree in saying that it was a name first given by parents praising God.
ad 2.: I haven’t read anything about this, but it is sure worth considering, whether maybe the name was given to the archangel due to some tradition that existed before. And maybe in doing this the personal name was re-interpreted the way suggested. I will try to find out whether there is any evidence for this. But if you start talking about God himself bestowing the name on the real archangel, I’ll be out of the game, I’m afraid …
RAFFAEL: Of course all the name says is: “God has healed.” We have to complete the sentence, but talking about a child’s name, we’ll have to think of the child: Either the child was sick and has now been healed (this would have to be a very instant sort of healing as names were usually given right after birth), or else it would be the mother who was healed. But why would she name the child Raffael if the healing didn’t have anything to do with the child? Or am I on the wrong track and there are other options I just don’t see?
Andy ;—)
1