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Help[Opinions] Re: Cohen
in reply to a message by SJayne
I mostly just think of famous Jewish people whose last name is Cohen. Sasha and Sacha and Leonard come to mind. It's not quite just another surname name to me ... it seems screamingly obvious to me that it's a strongly ethnicity-suggesting surname, with a fairly obvious religious origin, so, what else is there to like about it? Trying to evoke bright, artsy Jewish people? Or you just don't know it's Jewish? It does not seem like a name that Jewish people would use as a first name (correct me if I'm wrong, that's just my impression?). So, I don't get it.
Idiosyncratically, I also think of the Coen brothers, which makes me think of the wood chipper scene in the movie Fargo.
Idiosyncratically, I also think of the Coen brothers, which makes me think of the wood chipper scene in the movie Fargo.
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Can someone tell me why this is offensive to Jewish people?
I had no idea the name was even Jewish, I just heard it today as the name of a boy who appeared on a TV show. I just knew it was a last name. I don't really have a lot of knowledge about last names and I don't know whether it's just that we're probably from different places, because here, though we of course have Jewish people, it's not really a dominant ethnic group and and I've never even met anyone with the last name Cohen. We also are not a hugely religious place. Nor do I know who Sasha and Leonard are. The only association I have is that it was the last name of the family on the OC, which is a pretty neutral association to me.
I had no idea the name was even Jewish, I just heard it today as the name of a boy who appeared on a TV show. I just knew it was a last name. I don't really have a lot of knowledge about last names and I don't know whether it's just that we're probably from different places, because here, though we of course have Jewish people, it's not really a dominant ethnic group and and I've never even met anyone with the last name Cohen. We also are not a hugely religious place. Nor do I know who Sasha and Leonard are. The only association I have is that it was the last name of the family on the OC, which is a pretty neutral association to me.
This message was edited 10/31/2013, 8:20 PM
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I think because of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen
For me it's more offensive than, say, Rosenthal or Apfelbaum, if someone fancied using those as first names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen
For me it's more offensive than, say, Rosenthal or Apfelbaum, if someone fancied using those as first names.
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But the dynamics aren't the same. There's a huge difference between a minority culture picking up a name used by the dominant group, and a dominant group co-opting a name used by an oft-repressed minority.
The concept of Cohen is deeply significant to a lot of Jewish people, and I think many would be uncomfortable with members of another ethno-religious group using it. If they're doing it in ignorance it highlights how little they care about others' traditions; and if they're doing it deliberately it's an insult to the importance placed on the Cohen tradition.
Also, I wouldn't call my son Cohen any more than I'd call him Priest, King, Earl, Duke, etc. It's presumptuous, claiming an honour that is not his.
The concept of Cohen is deeply significant to a lot of Jewish people, and I think many would be uncomfortable with members of another ethno-religious group using it. If they're doing it in ignorance it highlights how little they care about others' traditions; and if they're doing it deliberately it's an insult to the importance placed on the Cohen tradition.
Also, I wouldn't call my son Cohen any more than I'd call him Priest, King, Earl, Duke, etc. It's presumptuous, claiming an honour that is not his.
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Wasn't earl used quite a lot in past generations? I know quite a few in their 60's
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Yes, but I personally find it embarrassingly aspirational :)
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I am a Christian(the religion), and I have met non-Christians who used the name Christian for their son. I found it a little ironic, but not offensive. Christian is a popular enough name that people could get away with it. Jesus isn't as popular. I've met people named Jesus, but they were all Christians (the religion). I don't find it especially offensive, but more so than Christian (the name) if you aren't a Christian (the religion).
I hope that isn't too confusing.
I hope that isn't too confusing.
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I feel like only the most uptight of Jewish people would have a problem with non-Jewish people using the name Cohen.
Very rude of you. Your "feel like" is based on basically nothing.
Very rude of you. Your "feel like" is based on basically nothing.
This message was edited 11/1/2013, 12:00 PM
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Ditto what the others say, and I'll add to it that I think most Jews would find it tacky and vulgar. And probably funny.
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Because it's a Jewish religious term.
Kohen or Cohen (or Kohain; Hebrew: כֹּהֵן, "priest", pl. כֹּהֲנִים Kohanim) is the Hebrew word for priest. Jewish Kohanim are traditionally believed and halachically required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the Biblical Aaron.
Kohen or Cohen (or Kohain; Hebrew: כֹּהֵן, "priest", pl. כֹּהֲנִים Kohanim) is the Hebrew word for priest. Jewish Kohanim are traditionally believed and halachically required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the Biblical Aaron.
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To Orthodox Jews, Cohen refers to a sacred bloodline said to descend from the biblical Aaron. Cohens have special privileges, but they also have restrictions (e.g. not marrying a widow, a divorcée, or a non-Jew). These restrictions, according to the Jewish faith, maintain the "pureness" of the bloodline.
Some Jews aren't offended by it. They feel naming your child Cohen, regardless of faith or faithlessness, is better than giving your child a name that is little more than a meaningless string of popular sounds. On the other hand, some Jews are extremely offended and find the use of the name by non-Jews to be ignorant and disrespectful. To them, the name is more than simply "priest", it is a religious statement. Cohen is a holy name that deserves to be venerated, in their opinion.
Some Jews aren't offended by it. They feel naming your child Cohen, regardless of faith or faithlessness, is better than giving your child a name that is little more than a meaningless string of popular sounds. On the other hand, some Jews are extremely offended and find the use of the name by non-Jews to be ignorant and disrespectful. To them, the name is more than simply "priest", it is a religious statement. Cohen is a holy name that deserves to be venerated, in their opinion.
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I read about that in a book on Judaism. My town has only a handful of Jewish families, though three of my dad's cousins who live elsewhere have married Jews. They also explained to me the rules of the Cohens. (Obviously, none of them are Cohens, since my family is not Jewish.)
A lot of religions have this kind of thing. Hinduism has a similar thing with the Brahmans, who are their priestly caste. They have their own privileges and restrictions (one rule they have is that they have to be vegetarian).
A lot of religions have this kind of thing. Hinduism has a similar thing with the Brahmans, who are their priestly caste. They have their own privileges and restrictions (one rule they have is that they have to be vegetarian).
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Oh I see thank you for that. I'm not sure I would ever come across people that would feel so strongly about it where I live, but it's certainly something to keep in mind
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This type of thing is less about hurting the feelings of individual people and more about your abstracter relationship with other cultures. I just think it's kind of gross to use a set of sounds that is cute and meaningless in your language, knowing it holds a sacred meaning that you don't understand in another (ancient, religious) culture. Encountering gentiles named Cohen always makes me want to roll my eyes totally out of my head. I guess people are free to do what they want or whatever, but it's harder to embody the idea of ignorance in a name than giving your child a name that literally is used as the title of a specific priestline in another culture.
But, like, Minerva is one of my favorite names, and there were people who worshiped Minerva, and I'll never be one of them, so! I'm probably just being uptight.
The word derives from a Semitic root common, at minimum, to the Central Semitic languages; the cognate Arabic word كاهن kāhin means "soothsayer, augur, or priest".
That's pretty neat.
But, like, Minerva is one of my favorite names, and there were people who worshiped Minerva, and I'll never be one of them, so! I'm probably just being uptight.
The word derives from a Semitic root common, at minimum, to the Central Semitic languages; the cognate Arabic word كاهن kāhin means "soothsayer, augur, or priest".
That's pretty neat.
This message was edited 10/31/2013, 11:01 PM
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There seems to be quite a bit more leeway with things from classical Greece and Rome. In terms of neo-poagan worship, those two cultures are considered "open" - anyone is free to explore them, and the same seems to go for names. Maybe because those cultures gradually faded out of use rather than being forcibly persecuted and destroyed the way others were (like Native American culture was)?
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Years ago, my sister had a boyfriend who was Jewish and whose surname was Cohen. She dated him for three years. My father was awful to her about it. He was really awful. He never referred to this guy in any way other than "the miserable Jew". At that time, I was in my early to mid-twenties and I had never had any idea previous to that that my father was so anti-Semitic. In fact, when I'd told my husband that my sister had a new boyfriend and that he was Jewish, he asked me what my parents would think of that. I said, "Oh, they won't care at all." That's what I really believed because neither of my parents had ever said anything at all anti-Semitic all during my growing up years. It sure came out when my sister started dating this guy. My mother cared, too, she just wasn't as vocal about it as my father.
It was the only really bad character trait that my father had and the way he treated my sister regarding her boyfriend was the only really bad thing I had ever seen him do. I witnessed him say to her, once when she was in a petulant mood, "You're so crabby, no wonder you can't get a Christian guy." It made my sister cry, and I actually yelled at my father, but he only laughed.
Anyway, forgive this off-topic (I suppose) and long digression, but it explains why I very strongly associate the name Cohen with Jewishness (is that the right word? I don't mean Judaism, because that's the religion, and this guy was not an observant Jew). I do believe that I knew before this that the name was Jewish, as far as I can recall. And I know that my mother thought so, because my sister told me that one of the things she'd said to her when she began dating him was, "He's not Jewish, right? He just has a Jewish last name?" No, Mom, he's Jewish lol.
It would seem odd to me to see it as a first name on a gentile child, that's how strongly I associate it with Jewish people.
And besides that, I find it very clunky and unattractive.
It was the only really bad character trait that my father had and the way he treated my sister regarding her boyfriend was the only really bad thing I had ever seen him do. I witnessed him say to her, once when she was in a petulant mood, "You're so crabby, no wonder you can't get a Christian guy." It made my sister cry, and I actually yelled at my father, but he only laughed.
Anyway, forgive this off-topic (I suppose) and long digression, but it explains why I very strongly associate the name Cohen with Jewishness (is that the right word? I don't mean Judaism, because that's the religion, and this guy was not an observant Jew). I do believe that I knew before this that the name was Jewish, as far as I can recall. And I know that my mother thought so, because my sister told me that one of the things she'd said to her when she began dating him was, "He's not Jewish, right? He just has a Jewish last name?" No, Mom, he's Jewish lol.
It would seem odd to me to see it as a first name on a gentile child, that's how strongly I associate it with Jewish people.
And besides that, I find it very clunky and unattractive.
This message was edited 10/31/2013, 8:50 PM
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I don't know that it is
I just know that the surname has belonged to Jewish people every time I've ever encountered it, and that "cohen" referred to some kind of religious role in some kind of Judaism.
I'm speculating a lot here, because I'm not Jewish, but I doubt that any but the most conservative Jews would find it really offensive. I think it's more likely that most Jewish people would find it funny, at worst. It doesn't seem disrespectful to Jews, to me, anyway - it just seems kind of weird, or else just oblivious. Maybe Jewish people would even be satisfied that the "ethnic" aspect of the surname wasn't relevant or noticeable to some people at all? Dunno.
I just know that the surname has belonged to Jewish people every time I've ever encountered it, and that "cohen" referred to some kind of religious role in some kind of Judaism.
I'm speculating a lot here, because I'm not Jewish, but I doubt that any but the most conservative Jews would find it really offensive. I think it's more likely that most Jewish people would find it funny, at worst. It doesn't seem disrespectful to Jews, to me, anyway - it just seems kind of weird, or else just oblivious. Maybe Jewish people would even be satisfied that the "ethnic" aspect of the surname wasn't relevant or noticeable to some people at all? Dunno.
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