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Archivesquestions on 2 surnames (read at your peril)
I'm not really expecting definitive answers here, I'm just putting some questions out on 2 names which I've been building up for a while.
1. Kerr
The surname is said to be from Norse meaning a patch of wet, rough ground. Yet from very early on it is clear that it was associated in Scotland with the Gaelic Cearr meaning 'wrong'/'awkward', or left handed (the word has also came into Scots and if you're left handed you might be called Kerry or Corry fisted.) What's interesting to me is that the Kerr family were popularly supposed to be left handed, and in fact several castles owned by Kerr's have left handed turnpike stairs which suggests that this was true. I don't believe the whole clan was left handed, but apparently it has been shown to have a genetic factor so they could have been distinguished by an unusually large number of lefties and played on it, since it puts your enemy at a disadvantage in a fight. Is it possible that in Scotland at least 1 branch of Kerr's could derive their surname from Cearr?
2. McGinley
This is my surname, and all the sources I've found agree it means son of Fhionngal, composed of the elements fionn 'fair' and gal 'valour'. However whenever you look up the first name Fhionngal or Fingal, including on btn, the 'gal' element is cited as coming from the Gaelic for stranger, hence it means 'fair stranger'. Even my big Oxford Names book contradicts itself between the surname and the first name, citing exactly the same spelling of Fhionngal in both entries but with different meanings. The difference is actually in just 1 letter, gal meaning valour and gall stranger.
If, as it appears, both meanings are possible and easily confused, why are sources so sure that McGinley is valour and Fingal is stranger? And why the discrepancy?
We must hang up in the belfry where the bats and moonlight laugh
We must stare into a crystal ball and only see the past
Into the caverns of tomorrow with just our flashlights and our love
We must plunge, we must plunge, we must plunge
1. Kerr
The surname is said to be from Norse meaning a patch of wet, rough ground. Yet from very early on it is clear that it was associated in Scotland with the Gaelic Cearr meaning 'wrong'/'awkward', or left handed (the word has also came into Scots and if you're left handed you might be called Kerry or Corry fisted.) What's interesting to me is that the Kerr family were popularly supposed to be left handed, and in fact several castles owned by Kerr's have left handed turnpike stairs which suggests that this was true. I don't believe the whole clan was left handed, but apparently it has been shown to have a genetic factor so they could have been distinguished by an unusually large number of lefties and played on it, since it puts your enemy at a disadvantage in a fight. Is it possible that in Scotland at least 1 branch of Kerr's could derive their surname from Cearr?
2. McGinley
This is my surname, and all the sources I've found agree it means son of Fhionngal, composed of the elements fionn 'fair' and gal 'valour'. However whenever you look up the first name Fhionngal or Fingal, including on btn, the 'gal' element is cited as coming from the Gaelic for stranger, hence it means 'fair stranger'. Even my big Oxford Names book contradicts itself between the surname and the first name, citing exactly the same spelling of Fhionngal in both entries but with different meanings. The difference is actually in just 1 letter, gal meaning valour and gall stranger.
If, as it appears, both meanings are possible and easily confused, why are sources so sure that McGinley is valour and Fingal is stranger? And why the discrepancy?
We must stare into a crystal ball and only see the past
Into the caverns of tomorrow with just our flashlights and our love
We must plunge, we must plunge, we must plunge
1
Replies
The association of Kerr with cearr 'left-handed' is considered to be a 'legend', as you can see at http://www.ancestry.co.uk/facts/Kerr-family-history.ashx. There is no mention of any such association in Black's The Surnames of Scotland' which is the authority on the subject of Scottish family names.
M(a)c Ginley is derived from Fionn+ghal whereas Fingal comes from Fionn+ghall, and the difference between the second roots indicates that one comes from gal 'valor' and the other from gall 'foreigner' (previously Northman, Dane). It's the same principle as English 'gal' and 'gall'.
M(a)c Ginley is derived from Fionn+ghal whereas Fingal comes from Fionn+ghall, and the difference between the second roots indicates that one comes from gal 'valor' and the other from gall 'foreigner' (previously Northman, Dane). It's the same principle as English 'gal' and 'gall'.
1
Sorry, I'm bad at wording things but I'll have another go.
I know the Kerr left handed is supposed to be a legend, but the point I was trying to make is that they have houses with left handed turnpike stairs, suggesting they might have been, or at least one or a few were left handed and they played on it since, as I said it puts your right handed enemy at a disadvantage. Left handedness is distinguishing enough to be worthy of epithet, there is an infamous Scottish soldier who was known as Colkitto or Col Ciotach, also meaning left handed, a name which apparently he inherited from his father. Really my question could have been worded, what is the evidence that Kerr could not have come from Cearr in at least one case?
I understnad the difference between gal and gall, My confusion with McGinlay came from the fact that it's a patronymic meaning son of Fionnghal, yet apparently this first name Fionnghal has disappeared, leaving only it's simlar counterpart Fionnghall and its anglicised form. Is it not likely that the two similar names have been confused into the one anglicised form?
I know the Kerr left handed is supposed to be a legend, but the point I was trying to make is that they have houses with left handed turnpike stairs, suggesting they might have been, or at least one or a few were left handed and they played on it since, as I said it puts your right handed enemy at a disadvantage. Left handedness is distinguishing enough to be worthy of epithet, there is an infamous Scottish soldier who was known as Colkitto or Col Ciotach, also meaning left handed, a name which apparently he inherited from his father. Really my question could have been worded, what is the evidence that Kerr could not have come from Cearr in at least one case?
I understnad the difference between gal and gall, My confusion with McGinlay came from the fact that it's a patronymic meaning son of Fionnghal, yet apparently this first name Fionnghal has disappeared, leaving only it's simlar counterpart Fionnghall and its anglicised form. Is it not likely that the two similar names have been confused into the one anglicised form?
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All I can tell you is that I've looked at every creditable source I can think of for evidence of the possibilities you raise and I haven't found any.
1
Left-handedness was a common trait among the Kerrs of the Anglo-Scots border. That is why the staircases in their peel towers ran counter to the usual construction, to give the advantage to a left-handed swordsman descending the stairs. The expression Kerr-handed results from the association of left-handedness with that clan. So the expression derives from an existing surname.
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