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Help[Facts] Vespasian - Emperor transformed into useful object?
In time came the rueful day when the Belgies, outraged at the cheek of countries that actually had a national identity, set loose their grey-suited hordes with the war cry "We love to make you smile!" to conquer the capitals of Europe in the name of their late ideological leader, Sam Walton. The rest is history, and the European Union will soon have all the distinctiveness of a North Jersey shopping mall. But as always, I digress...
When Paris was still French, warts and all, they used to have these publicly-maintained cast-iron enclosures along some boulevards where Pierre DuBois could stop off for a leisurely leak before heading down into the Metro.
Such a convenient edifice was called a "vespasienne", presumably after the Emperor Vespasian. BUT WHY? Can anyone explain this transition from personal name to personal hygiene?
When Paris was still French, warts and all, they used to have these publicly-maintained cast-iron enclosures along some boulevards where Pierre DuBois could stop off for a leisurely leak before heading down into the Metro.
Such a convenient edifice was called a "vespasienne", presumably after the Emperor Vespasian. BUT WHY? Can anyone explain this transition from personal name to personal hygiene?
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Replies
The Good, The Bad, and The "Made For Television"
Wish Inchabod Campbell had a sub-board where we could get off-topic with a clear conscience. I saw two movies this weekend that fell at opposite ends of the quality spectrum: "Crouching Tiger" and
"Uh-TILL-a". Betcha can't guess which one I had more sadistic fun picking apart...
Wish Inchabod Campbell had a sub-board where we could get off-topic with a clear conscience. I saw two movies this weekend that fell at opposite ends of the quality spectrum: "Crouching Tiger" and
"Uh-TILL-a". Betcha can't guess which one I had more sadistic fun picking apart...
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Starting With the Mouthbreather Pronunciation...
"Uh-TILL-a" don't cut it: it's AT-il-uh, dammit! (Just ask any Hun...or Hungarian.)
And there aren't enough Hmong guys (or even Navajos) in the US who could've used the extra bucks, acted better than Gerard Butt-Head, and looked like authentic ASIAN nomadic horsemen to boot? Arrgh...
Stay tuned for: Roman Battle Tactics -- Everything I Know I Learned From Watching "Conan The Barbarian"...
"Uh-TILL-a" don't cut it: it's AT-il-uh, dammit! (Just ask any Hun...or Hungarian.)
And there aren't enough Hmong guys (or even Navajos) in the US who could've used the extra bucks, acted better than Gerard Butt-Head, and looked like authentic ASIAN nomadic horsemen to boot? Arrgh...
Stay tuned for: Roman Battle Tactics -- Everything I Know I Learned From Watching "Conan The Barbarian"...
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Agghh! You think I'd pay MONEY to watch that dreck? It was on teevee! I'm still scrubbin the screen with Lysol!
(Admittedly, I did pay 6 bucks a head up in Lex to watch Ang Lee's "Crouching Tiger", and it was worth every cent. No nit-pickin' complaints there, as long as you suspend your disbelief that martial arts types can fly like Peter Pan. TEN Academy Award nominations, and at least several are deserved!)
(Admittedly, I did pay 6 bucks a head up in Lex to watch Ang Lee's "Crouching Tiger", and it was worth every cent. No nit-pickin' complaints there, as long as you suspend your disbelief that martial arts types can fly like Peter Pan. TEN Academy Award nominations, and at least several are deserved!)
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Very poetic visual effects indeed :) But I'm fed up with great love stories that never quite culminate for idiotic reasons!
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Not having seen either movie, I didn't quite feel qualified to comment. :) I wait till they all come out on DVD now. I just don't enjoy the "movie theatre experience" these days.
Unless, of course, I'm going to a midnight screening of *The Rocky Horrow Show*. In which case, I'm careful to pack my roll of Scott toilet tissue, water pistol, deck of playing cards, etc.
Now THAT'S entertainment! :D
-- Nanaea
Unless, of course, I'm going to a midnight screening of *The Rocky Horrow Show*. In which case, I'm careful to pack my roll of Scott toilet tissue, water pistol, deck of playing cards, etc.
Now THAT'S entertainment! :D
-- Nanaea
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Typo/Typeau
That's P.C. Canadian for "Sacre Bleu! I hit the wrong keys". (Another generation of wholesale Canuck chain-smokin' and our Friends to the North can drop the bilingual charade. Nobody speaks that sorta-French west of Kitchener anyway.)
Shoulda been "Ichabod" Campbell, as per the Redneck translator. Uh, nothing personal, Mike.
That's P.C. Canadian for "Sacre Bleu! I hit the wrong keys". (Another generation of wholesale Canuck chain-smokin' and our Friends to the North can drop the bilingual charade. Nobody speaks that sorta-French west of Kitchener anyway.)
Shoulda been "Ichabod" Campbell, as per the Redneck translator. Uh, nothing personal, Mike.
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You always come up with such earthy topics for discussion, Daividh. :)
This one was particularly entertaining, because it gave me the opportunity to try out AltaVista's amazing Babelfish on some French websites, with the following entertaining (if not totally literate) translation into English:
From http://www.multimania.com/thorn/juillet.htm
"Pourquoi dire que l'argent n'a pas d'odeur? L'empereur romain Vespasien (dont le nom donnera plus tard le terme vespasienne pour urinoir), toujours ? court d'argent (vous voyez bien que je ne suis pas le seul !), cr?a une taxe sur les urines. Fallait y penser pour faire payer tout le monde ! Son fils lui reprochant cette origine de l'argent, il lui ass?na cette r?plique devenue immortelle."
Babelfish translation:
"Why say that the money does not have odor? The Roman emperor Vespasien (whose name will give the urinal term later for urinal), always with money court (you see well that I am not only!), created a tax on the urines. Was necessary to think of it to make pay everyone! His/her son reproaching him this origin of the money, it him ass?na this counterpart become immortal."
Well, it does help a bit to know in advance that Vespasian was supposedly the first Roman emperor to come up with the bright idea of levying a tax on public toilets in Rome. (He also made a tidy profit on the side by selling the urine collected from these public toilets to cloth-dyers.)
When Vespasian's son reproached the emperor for his pettiness in charging the citizenry each time they needed to "shake hands with the uxor's best friend" or "point Publius at the porcelain" (effectively telling Vespasian that his idea -- like the urine he was selling -- stank), Vespasian responded by shoving a fistful of denarii under Junior's nose and offering the wise observation: "Pecunia non olet" ("Money doesn't smell").
I have to admit that I didn't know the French called their public toilets "vespasiennes" -- I'd always thought they only called them "pissoirs". I guess "vespasienne" sounds somewhat more refined, sorta like calling a public toilet here in the U.S. a "restroom" instead of a "sh*t-stall".
I wonder what they call 'em in Greece? Guess we'll have to wait till Priapos gets back from the mountains again this weekend, to find out.
-- Nanaea
This one was particularly entertaining, because it gave me the opportunity to try out AltaVista's amazing Babelfish on some French websites, with the following entertaining (if not totally literate) translation into English:
From http://www.multimania.com/thorn/juillet.htm
"Pourquoi dire que l'argent n'a pas d'odeur? L'empereur romain Vespasien (dont le nom donnera plus tard le terme vespasienne pour urinoir), toujours ? court d'argent (vous voyez bien que je ne suis pas le seul !), cr?a une taxe sur les urines. Fallait y penser pour faire payer tout le monde ! Son fils lui reprochant cette origine de l'argent, il lui ass?na cette r?plique devenue immortelle."
Babelfish translation:
"Why say that the money does not have odor? The Roman emperor Vespasien (whose name will give the urinal term later for urinal), always with money court (you see well that I am not only!), created a tax on the urines. Was necessary to think of it to make pay everyone! His/her son reproaching him this origin of the money, it him ass?na this counterpart become immortal."
Well, it does help a bit to know in advance that Vespasian was supposedly the first Roman emperor to come up with the bright idea of levying a tax on public toilets in Rome. (He also made a tidy profit on the side by selling the urine collected from these public toilets to cloth-dyers.)
When Vespasian's son reproached the emperor for his pettiness in charging the citizenry each time they needed to "shake hands with the uxor's best friend" or "point Publius at the porcelain" (effectively telling Vespasian that his idea -- like the urine he was selling -- stank), Vespasian responded by shoving a fistful of denarii under Junior's nose and offering the wise observation: "Pecunia non olet" ("Money doesn't smell").
I have to admit that I didn't know the French called their public toilets "vespasiennes" -- I'd always thought they only called them "pissoirs". I guess "vespasienne" sounds somewhat more refined, sorta like calling a public toilet here in the U.S. a "restroom" instead of a "sh*t-stall".
I wonder what they call 'em in Greece? Guess we'll have to wait till Priapos gets back from the mountains again this weekend, to find out.
-- Nanaea
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Its amazing how Daividh's urolagnous queries can help propel such a shower of historical tidbits. Vespasian built the Colosseum of Rome, and its quite amusing to learn how he raised capital to finance the project :)
Actually there the names of Toilets in Greece ate quite anticlimaclic. The classical word is "Loutro", meaning "place to bathe". The politically correct euphemism is "To meros" meaning "The place". The vulgar expression is "H xestra" (the "craphouse, I guess). And the westernized "Brussels-compatible" expression, written on airport and restaurant doors, is "W.C." ("water closet, borrowed presumably from the brits).
By the way, taking lead from the name Vespasian aloow me a small etymological digression: the prefixes "Ve-" "Su-" and "Hy" in Latin usually are transliterations of Greek words beginning with an aspirate "E" or "Y".
For example, the Greek "Yper" becomes "Hyper" or "Super" in latin. Esperia ("the west")becomes Vesperia or Vesper. Amusingly, we can trace Greek origins of even seemingly anglosaxon words such as "Westmister" => from Wesper(<= Vesper <= Esperia) + Minster (Monastery <= Monastirion <= monazo "to be alone"<= mono "single").
Actually there the names of Toilets in Greece ate quite anticlimaclic. The classical word is "Loutro", meaning "place to bathe". The politically correct euphemism is "To meros" meaning "The place". The vulgar expression is "H xestra" (the "craphouse, I guess). And the westernized "Brussels-compatible" expression, written on airport and restaurant doors, is "W.C." ("water closet, borrowed presumably from the brits).
By the way, taking lead from the name Vespasian aloow me a small etymological digression: the prefixes "Ve-" "Su-" and "Hy" in Latin usually are transliterations of Greek words beginning with an aspirate "E" or "Y".
For example, the Greek "Yper" becomes "Hyper" or "Super" in latin. Esperia ("the west")becomes Vesperia or Vesper. Amusingly, we can trace Greek origins of even seemingly anglosaxon words such as "Westmister" => from Wesper(<= Vesper <= Esperia) + Minster (Monastery <= Monastirion <= monazo "to be alone"<= mono "single").
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Dang, when will I ever learn to proofread for tuypos before posting???
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I found a French site which mentioned in passing that only two of the old vespasiennes remain in Paris. The rest were replaced about 1980 by Decaux "sanisettes", which I gather are more modern coin-op unisex facilities that are self-cleaning and completely without character. (Didn't resort to a translator, so may have missed something.)
Ah, progress. Haven't been to Paris since Le Grand Charles (De Gaulle)was residing in the Elysee Palace, and I'm not sure I'm in any hurry to change that. :(
Ah, progress. Haven't been to Paris since Le Grand Charles (De Gaulle)was residing in the Elysee Palace, and I'm not sure I'm in any hurry to change that. :(
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Tu etait a Paris pendant Mai '68, jettant des tomates a Daniel Cohn-Bendit, ou pendant ta guerre, vieux chameau ?
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Pendant Decembre '67 - Janvrier '68, helas. One hump or two?
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Talking about humps, you were old enough to participate in the summer of love :) BTW, Did you swing over to London to see Syd Barrett perform at the UFO club? Ach, if the there only were a time machine...
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If there WERE a time machine, I'd scarf up Microsoft and Wal-Mart stock, then BUY the freakin UFO Club. Unfortunately, I missed London that time around, opting to spend my holiday with family in Dundee. Big whoop.
Like they say, hindsight is 20-20. Back then, we didn't recognize the sociological and historical significance of a lot of things that are venerated now.
The "Summer of Love" was a curious footnote at the time, 1,800 miles away to boot. At the time, we were more concerned with socking away money for college and talking about the War (our protesting, Guardsmen, and tear gas on campus came a bit later).
Talk about missed opportunities -- four of us were gonna make the trek up to New York State for this rock festival, called, uh, Woodstock, but me and Steve, workin our summer jobs at the refrigerator factory, got scheduled for mandatory overtime at the last minute and we called it off. Of course, if I'd known what we were gonna miss, I'd have QUIT. (I no longer even remember the name of the supervisor who screwed up our plans...)
Like they say, hindsight is 20-20. Back then, we didn't recognize the sociological and historical significance of a lot of things that are venerated now.
The "Summer of Love" was a curious footnote at the time, 1,800 miles away to boot. At the time, we were more concerned with socking away money for college and talking about the War (our protesting, Guardsmen, and tear gas on campus came a bit later).
Talk about missed opportunities -- four of us were gonna make the trek up to New York State for this rock festival, called, uh, Woodstock, but me and Steve, workin our summer jobs at the refrigerator factory, got scheduled for mandatory overtime at the last minute and we called it off. Of course, if I'd known what we were gonna miss, I'd have QUIT. (I no longer even remember the name of the supervisor who screwed up our plans...)
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Bummer! Given the "butterfly effect", your presence at woodstock would have changed history...
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"Daniel Cohn-Bendit's Europe"="Nice boundaries helped not"
I just submitted this one to the AG archive -- wonder if I'll ever see my name up there with that legendary great, Paul Pan? :)
-- Nanaea
I just submitted this one to the AG archive -- wonder if I'll ever see my name up there with that legendary great, Paul Pan? :)
-- Nanaea
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Thank you! I KNEW you'd come through, dear Nan! But "the uxor's best friend"? "Point Publius at the porcelain"? ROTFLMAO!! :))))))
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Even more edifying than watching The Learning Channel
Both of those colorful expressions are Romanized versions of lines from one of my absolute favorite British comedy teevee series: *Steptoe and Son*. For your edification and amusement, here are the original expressions for... (well, you know):
"Shake hands with the wife's best friend."
"Point Percy at the porcelain."
And now, just for fun, I'm going to translate each of those above expresssions using AltaVista's amaaaaaaaazing Babel Fish! (Followed by Rinkworks amaaaaaaazing Dialectizer!)
In French:
"Secouez les mains avec la meilleure amie de l'épouse."
"Dirigez Percy à la porcelaine."
In German:
"Rütteln Sie Hände mit dem besten Freund der Frau."
"Zeigen Sie Percy auf das Porzellan."
In Italian:
"Agitare le mani con l'amico migliore della moglie."
"Indicare Percy alla porcellana."
In Portugeuse:
"Agite as mãos com o mais melhor amigo da esposa."
"Aponte Percy na porcelana."
In Spanish:
"Sacudara las manos con el mejor amigo de la esposa."
"Señale a Percy en la porcelana."
In Redneck:
"Shake han's wif th' wife's bess friend, cuss it all t' tarnation."
"Point Percy at th' po'celain, as enny fool kin plainly see."
In Jive:
"Shake hands wid de mama's best homey."
"Point Percy at da damn po'celain. 'S coo', bro."
In Cockney:
"Shake 'ands wiv the bleedin' ole lady's Mae West china."
"Point Percy at the porcelain."
In Elmer Fudd:
"Shake hands wif the wife's best fwiend."
"Point Pewcy at the powcewain, uh-hah-hah-hah."
In Swedish Chef:
"Sheke-a hunds veet zee veeffe's best freeend. Bork bork bork!"
"Pueent Percy et zee purceleeen. Bork bork bork!"
In Moron:
"Shake hands wid the, uh, the wife's best friend."
"Poit Pehcy at de porcelain."
In Pig Latin:
"Akeshay andshay ithway ethay ife'sway estbay iendfray."
"Ointpay Ercypay atyay ethay orcelainpay."
In Hacker:
shakje hAnds with teh wife's best d3wd!!!!!!!!!!!!!1~~~~ you suX0r cause u r lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~ ' pount paRcy 4t the procelain.. lolloolololololoo~~
-- Nanaea
Both of those colorful expressions are Romanized versions of lines from one of my absolute favorite British comedy teevee series: *Steptoe and Son*. For your edification and amusement, here are the original expressions for... (well, you know):
"Shake hands with the wife's best friend."
"Point Percy at the porcelain."
And now, just for fun, I'm going to translate each of those above expresssions using AltaVista's amaaaaaaaazing Babel Fish! (Followed by Rinkworks amaaaaaaazing Dialectizer!)
In French:
"Secouez les mains avec la meilleure amie de l'épouse."
"Dirigez Percy à la porcelaine."
In German:
"Rütteln Sie Hände mit dem besten Freund der Frau."
"Zeigen Sie Percy auf das Porzellan."
In Italian:
"Agitare le mani con l'amico migliore della moglie."
"Indicare Percy alla porcellana."
In Portugeuse:
"Agite as mãos com o mais melhor amigo da esposa."
"Aponte Percy na porcelana."
In Spanish:
"Sacudara las manos con el mejor amigo de la esposa."
"Señale a Percy en la porcelana."
In Redneck:
"Shake han's wif th' wife's bess friend, cuss it all t' tarnation."
"Point Percy at th' po'celain, as enny fool kin plainly see."
In Jive:
"Shake hands wid de mama's best homey."
"Point Percy at da damn po'celain. 'S coo', bro."
In Cockney:
"Shake 'ands wiv the bleedin' ole lady's Mae West china."
"Point Percy at the porcelain."
In Elmer Fudd:
"Shake hands wif the wife's best fwiend."
"Point Pewcy at the powcewain, uh-hah-hah-hah."
In Swedish Chef:
"Sheke-a hunds veet zee veeffe's best freeend. Bork bork bork!"
"Pueent Percy et zee purceleeen. Bork bork bork!"
In Moron:
"Shake hands wid the, uh, the wife's best friend."
"Poit Pehcy at de porcelain."
In Pig Latin:
"Akeshay andshay ithway ethay ife'sway estbay iendfray."
"Ointpay Ercypay atyay ethay orcelainpay."
In Hacker:
shakje hAnds with teh wife's best d3wd!!!!!!!!!!!!!1~~~~ you suX0r cause u r lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~ ' pount paRcy 4t the procelain.. lolloolololololoo~~
-- Nanaea
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Correction
The war cry of the Belgeaucrats should have been "We love to SEE you smile!"
Obviously, I don't eat enough Happy Meals.
The war cry of the Belgeaucrats should have been "We love to SEE you smile!"
Obviously, I don't eat enough Happy Meals.
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