New Post
Search
Help[Opinions] Re: It's not a name (m)
in reply to a message by Julia
It's a pretty sound, but it's akin to naming your daughter Praise The Lord or Rejoice. It's really, really tacky and borderline disrespectful as a name.
Seriously? Hosanna has a history of use (as does Rejoice, for the record). Whether you find it disrespectful is one thing, but it seems a tad ridiculous to me to term it not a name. It's been used as such for quite a while--perhaps not commonly, but it's certainly not out of left field.
Array
Seriously? Hosanna has a history of use (as does Rejoice, for the record). Whether you find it disrespectful is one thing, but it seems a tad ridiculous to me to term it not a name. It's been used as such for quite a while--perhaps not commonly, but it's certainly not out of left field.
Array
Archived Thread - replies disabled
1
Replies
All I hear is hose.
1
You're definitely right about Hosanna having a history of use. There have been at least two Italian saints with that name (Osanna in Italian).
1
Does it have a history of use? I can't find it on any of the SSA popularity lists. I believe you, but when was it used?
Anyway, I don't really understand the logic of "It's been used as a name before". If a bunch of people started naming their daughters Table, would that make it a name? Hosanna is along the lines of Selah in my opinion. It's not actually a given name, but it sounds and looks enough like a name that people use it as such.
Anyway, I don't really understand the logic of "It's been used as a name before". If a bunch of people started naming their daughters Table, would that make it a name? Hosanna is along the lines of Selah in my opinion. It's not actually a given name, but it sounds and looks enough like a name that people use it as such.
1
Yes,...
if a bunch of people started naming their daughters Table, Table WOULD be a name. Whether something IS a name or not is not a matter of opinion but of empirical fact. If it has been an official legal designation of a human being, it IS a name, no matter how much you or I dislike it. To call it "not a name" seems to me to be a use of the psychological defense mechanism of denial. It simply doesn't reflect reality to say that a name you don't like "isn't a name".
if a bunch of people started naming their daughters Table, Table WOULD be a name. Whether something IS a name or not is not a matter of opinion but of empirical fact. If it has been an official legal designation of a human being, it IS a name, no matter how much you or I dislike it. To call it "not a name" seems to me to be a use of the psychological defense mechanism of denial. It simply doesn't reflect reality to say that a name you don't like "isn't a name".
1
I know of a few Hosannas, too
And I'd much rather meet a Hosanna that a SirLynyrd or Mackeyleighana any day. :)
And I'd much rather meet a Hosanna that a SirLynyrd or Mackeyleighana any day. :)
1
Lol! Very, very true.
1
it sounds and looks enough like a name that people use it as such.
Doesn't that make it a name?
Doesn't that make it a name?
1
Since at least the nineteenth century (and for Rejoice, at least since the seventeenth), there have been Hosannas. I haven't looked too hard, but searching a name and the word genealogy tends to bring up hits for more obscure oddities.
And yeah, if enough people started using Table, it would be a name. Just like if enough people used, say, LaToya or Kaylee or Heaven or Pamela or Dorian.
Array
And yeah, if enough people started using Table, it would be a name. Just like if enough people used, say, LaToya or Kaylee or Heaven or Pamela or Dorian.
Array
1
I respectfully but strongly disagree. To me, the word "name" does not mean a collection of syllables that has been applied to people for at least a certain amount of time. It refers to something with roots and meaning. It can even be something that a writer made up, as long as they based it on something. For example, Shakespeare made up the name Miranda, but he based it on the Latin mirandus, which has a meaning. Dorian and Pamela have similar origins.
My distinction on word names is shaky. I'm not sure why I think Ruby is okay but Heaven is not--I suppose it's a bit hypocritical of me, and I recognize that. I do not consider LaToya and Kaylee legit names.
ETA: I am fairly sure you will disagree with me, and that's fine--I think this is something we have to agree to disagree on. I am very conservative and picky, even anal-retentive, when it comes to names. I wouldn't dream of naming my daughter Stargazer, while that is one of your favorite names. So I think we're on opposite ends of the name spectrum.
ETA again: I hope this hasn't come across as a personal attack. I like you and respect you--I just disagree with you. No offense is intended.
My distinction on word names is shaky. I'm not sure why I think Ruby is okay but Heaven is not--I suppose it's a bit hypocritical of me, and I recognize that. I do not consider LaToya and Kaylee legit names.
ETA: I am fairly sure you will disagree with me, and that's fine--I think this is something we have to agree to disagree on. I am very conservative and picky, even anal-retentive, when it comes to names. I wouldn't dream of naming my daughter Stargazer, while that is one of your favorite names. So I think we're on opposite ends of the name spectrum.
ETA again: I hope this hasn't come across as a personal attack. I like you and respect you--I just disagree with you. No offense is intended.
This message was edited 8/5/2007, 8:13 PM
1
I'm sorry, and I hope you don't think I'm being disrespectful, but the simply is not the dictionary definition of the word "name". You can use language any way you personally want, but this is an eccentric definition which simply is not accepted by the huge majority of speakers of English.
1
I tend to agree with you
I don't consider names to be random sounds that can be bestowed on children without any criterion, names should have a tradition and a history of usage and I don't really agree with the "anything goes" mentality. Of course things change, otherwise women would be still named all named after their fathers with "major" and "minor" to distinguish sisters, the way the Romans used to be, but it irks me when people say what's wrong to give a girl a boy's name? It's just a name! Or: Pagan is fine as a name, since Christian is! I also however find it difficult to draw an exact line, for instance I'm ok with Amber and Scarlet, but Tawny and Red don't sound like real names to me. As concerns Hosanna, I don't really like it but it's been used for a while so maybe why I find it bearable. Again it's a bit contradictory because I dislike Rejoice and Cherish, somehow it seems weird to use a verb as a name.
I don't consider names to be random sounds that can be bestowed on children without any criterion, names should have a tradition and a history of usage and I don't really agree with the "anything goes" mentality. Of course things change, otherwise women would be still named all named after their fathers with "major" and "minor" to distinguish sisters, the way the Romans used to be, but it irks me when people say what's wrong to give a girl a boy's name? It's just a name! Or: Pagan is fine as a name, since Christian is! I also however find it difficult to draw an exact line, for instance I'm ok with Amber and Scarlet, but Tawny and Red don't sound like real names to me. As concerns Hosanna, I don't really like it but it's been used for a while so maybe why I find it bearable. Again it's a bit contradictory because I dislike Rejoice and Cherish, somehow it seems weird to use a verb as a name.
1
It IS just a name! It is a sound that we are trained to respond to from a young age. If, from infancy, someone used the sound "Urgh" to get your attention, then that is what you would be trained to respond to.
The true origins of names have become so cloudy that it is difficult to tell WHERE a name comes from or WHAT the true meaning of it is.
Why not name your child something that you find pleasing? I would rather name my daughter Logan because I absolutely love the name (and it fits her extraordinarily well by the way) than Mary simply because it has more history of being a "girl's name".
To you there is a sold black line that is thick and strong and totally differentiates between girls and boys. I simply prefer to not limit myself or my children. If it were THAT important, it would have been the 11th Commandment "Thou shall not give your child a name that others will disapprove of" pffff
xoxo
Michelle
The true origins of names have become so cloudy that it is difficult to tell WHERE a name comes from or WHAT the true meaning of it is.
Why not name your child something that you find pleasing? I would rather name my daughter Logan because I absolutely love the name (and it fits her extraordinarily well by the way) than Mary simply because it has more history of being a "girl's name".
To you there is a sold black line that is thick and strong and totally differentiates between girls and boys. I simply prefer to not limit myself or my children. If it were THAT important, it would have been the 11th Commandment "Thou shall not give your child a name that others will disapprove of" pffff
xoxo
Michelle
1
it's just a matter of personal taste!
"Why not name your child something that you find pleasing?"
I happen to find boys 's names on girls not pleasing and I think I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you have yours.It's not some kind of abstract principle. Furthermore, in some languages, including my own (Italian), with a few exceptions a "solid black line" between male and female names exists de facto because of the way the language works, and most names are gendered very clearly, we don't have surname-derived names, for instance. A girl named Giuseppe or Giovanni would have a hard time indeed (and probably it's illegal to name a girl that in Italy anyway).It's also interesting to see how the "black line" seems to persist when it's a matter of giving traditionally female names to boys, you don't meet many boys named Elizabeth or Helen, do you? Aren't they also "just names"? You make it sound as if I had written something along the lines of: "Parents who bestow male names on girls should be tried for child abuse". I just said it wasn't my style. Of course it's not a matter of life and death, and there's lots of things that are not in the 10 Commandements that I'd rather not do.
"Why not name your child something that you find pleasing?"
I happen to find boys 's names on girls not pleasing and I think I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you have yours.It's not some kind of abstract principle. Furthermore, in some languages, including my own (Italian), with a few exceptions a "solid black line" between male and female names exists de facto because of the way the language works, and most names are gendered very clearly, we don't have surname-derived names, for instance. A girl named Giuseppe or Giovanni would have a hard time indeed (and probably it's illegal to name a girl that in Italy anyway).It's also interesting to see how the "black line" seems to persist when it's a matter of giving traditionally female names to boys, you don't meet many boys named Elizabeth or Helen, do you? Aren't they also "just names"? You make it sound as if I had written something along the lines of: "Parents who bestow male names on girls should be tried for child abuse". I just said it wasn't my style. Of course it's not a matter of life and death, and there's lots of things that are not in the 10 Commandements that I'd rather not do.
1
I never said that you weren't entitled to your opinion, nor did I say that your opinion was bad. The "black line" exists with some people when it comes to surnames, place names, word names, etc. It's not just traditionally male names on girls. Some people are very adament when it comes to these things and I, personally find it absurd. Why should someone get so worked up about what I name my children?
If someone wanted to name their son Elizabeth or Helen, so be it, that is my opinion. I wasn't implying anything about "child abuse", it is simply a difference of opinion. You have yours, I have mine...
If someone wanted to name their son Elizabeth or Helen, so be it, that is my opinion. I wasn't implying anything about "child abuse", it is simply a difference of opinion. You have yours, I have mine...
1
I have a "solid black line" and I like it. :-)
1