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Help[Facts] Re: Sunniva - Norwegian? Fridolin - German?
in reply to a message by Swiff
St Frideswide was English ... Anglo-Saxon, of course, so it's not surprising if her name (or elements of it) corresponds to (Old High) German names.
Unfortunately, a lot depends on whoever wrote the name(s) down first, and the language/s he was most familiar with.
Unfortunately, a lot depends on whoever wrote the name(s) down first, and the language/s he was most familiar with.
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FRIDOLIN is a German pet form of FRIEDRICH, something like "Little Frederic".
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In other words, Friedelein. OK! But that doesn't help Swiff, who just wants to know how many German-speaking medieval Irish namers there were ... or the extent to which people felt free to use "foreign" names, if they knew them.
Is there a regional difference between -lein and -chen as diminutive indicators? (You'll know, if anyone does!) Gretel versus Gretchen? If so, that might narrow it down slightly.
Is there a regional difference between -lein and -chen as diminutive indicators? (You'll know, if anyone does!) Gretel versus Gretchen? If so, that might narrow it down slightly.
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I think there WAS a regional difference between -lein and -chen as diminutive indicators, -lein being used more often in southern regions and -chen being of northern origin. However it's not a big difference today. Both of them are known all over Germany and only used for nicknames. German parents usually don't name their daughters Gretchen or Gretel (the latter is definitely more southern) but Margarete/Margareta because they tend to give them what they think is "the real name", so later she can choose whether she wants to be nicknamed or not.
This message was edited 11/6/2007, 12:00 PM
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St. Fridolin was born in Ireland, but he did the missionary work that earned him his sainthood in Germany. I would suppose that Fridolin is a "Germanization" of his original Irish name, whatever that might have been, so that the Germans he was working with could relate to him better.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06303c.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06303c.htm
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I checked a few books on Saints, and they agreed on the fact that his life is not reliable. Some suspect that he was of Frankish origin rather than Irish.
"His unreliable Life discribed him as an Irishman who ..." (D.Farmer, The Oxford Dictionary of Saints, 1997)
"The uncertain life, covered by legends, says Fridolin was of Irish, but rather of Frankish descent" (Schauber & Schindler, Bildlexikon der Heiligen, München 1999)
"... probably of Frankish descent ..." (Clemens Jöckle, Das Große Heiligenlexikon, Köln 2003
"His Germanic name is a point against his Irish descent." (Lexikon der Heiligen und Heiligenverehrung, Freiburg 2003)
FRIDOLIN is a typical southern German name, by the way, at home in Swabia. And indeed -lein / -lin is the diminutive used in the south of Germany (and -chen / -ke(n) rather in the north).
"His unreliable Life discribed him as an Irishman who ..." (D.Farmer, The Oxford Dictionary of Saints, 1997)
"The uncertain life, covered by legends, says Fridolin was of Irish, but rather of Frankish descent" (Schauber & Schindler, Bildlexikon der Heiligen, München 1999)
"... probably of Frankish descent ..." (Clemens Jöckle, Das Große Heiligenlexikon, Köln 2003
"His Germanic name is a point against his Irish descent." (Lexikon der Heiligen und Heiligenverehrung, Freiburg 2003)
FRIDOLIN is a typical southern German name, by the way, at home in Swabia. And indeed -lein / -lin is the diminutive used in the south of Germany (and -chen / -ke(n) rather in the north).
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The Irish origin of this saint seems to be a creation as a lot of personal data in medieval saints' lifes:
"The improbability of Fridolin as an Irish missionary is evident from his Germanic, rather than Celtic, name."
At the review of Sankt Fridolin und sein Biograph Balther: Irische Heilige in der litterarischen Darstellung des Mittelalters by Margrit Koch, by Marvin L. Colker (Speculum, Vol. 35, No. 3 (Jul., 1960), pp. 468-469)
"The improbability of Fridolin as an Irish missionary is evident from his Germanic, rather than Celtic, name."
At the review of Sankt Fridolin und sein Biograph Balther: Irische Heilige in der litterarischen Darstellung des Mittelalters by Margrit Koch, by Marvin L. Colker (Speculum, Vol. 35, No. 3 (Jul., 1960), pp. 468-469)
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