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Help[Opinions] Using a name from another culture as an American
Just wondering peoples general thoughts on this.
Do you think it’s weird or distasteful for a monolingual, Anglo American to you use a name from a culture they have little connection to (maybe they have ancestry from the country in question but it’s distant, maybe they have none at all). Does it depend on what language/culture the name is from or how similar it is to common American names?
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/87410
Do you think it’s weird or distasteful for a monolingual, Anglo American to you use a name from a culture they have little connection to (maybe they have ancestry from the country in question but it’s distant, maybe they have none at all). Does it depend on what language/culture the name is from or how similar it is to common American names?
http://www.behindthename.com/pnl/87410
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Replies
As someone who is multi-racial/multi-ethnic, I don't care. Honestly as long as you use a name correctly, and maybe not something that's specifically outside of your religion/culture (like an active oppression situation), its ok. It is really really weird, giving say a traditional Nahuatl name to an English baby but its not unethical? maybe... idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This message was edited 9/12/2023, 10:53 AM
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(I am a white American, for context on my opinions.)
It depends on what culture it is and its relation in the history of American (and British, given the Anglo specification) colonization. If it's a culture which has a history of being colonized and/or oppressed by America/U.K. then I find it uncomfortable and distasteful, as if you're further commodifying that culture. Even if those of that culture you've met don't find it offensive (and how likely are they to actually be honest and start that confrontation?) and you think it's okay, I think it's important to consider that *your child* might grow to find it offensive or uncomfortable.
Other regions and continents, however, should probably be avoided. The exception would be if you were naming the baby after someone important who you want to honor, like a lifelong friend, a surrogate relative, or a doctor who delivered the baby and saved the mother in a difficult birth. Obviously there is no hard and fast rule.
It depends on what culture it is and its relation in the history of American (and British, given the Anglo specification) colonization. If it's a culture which has a history of being colonized and/or oppressed by America/U.K. then I find it uncomfortable and distasteful, as if you're further commodifying that culture. Even if those of that culture you've met don't find it offensive (and how likely are they to actually be honest and start that confrontation?) and you think it's okay, I think it's important to consider that *your child* might grow to find it offensive or uncomfortable.
Other regions and continents, however, should probably be avoided. The exception would be if you were naming the baby after someone important who you want to honor, like a lifelong friend, a surrogate relative, or a doctor who delivered the baby and saved the mother in a difficult birth. Obviously there is no hard and fast rule.
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I would expect a person with a name specific to my culture to have a close connection to it. I find it weird if there is no connection.
I find it distasteful if someone misuses elements of my culture (i.e. uses patronymics, surnames or diminutives as a first names).
Mispronunciation may also be annoying.
I find it distasteful if someone misuses elements of my culture (i.e. uses patronymics, surnames or diminutives as a first names).
Mispronunciation may also be annoying.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:30 PM
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It depends on the culture. Some seem to be more open than others. I think it may be related to power dynamics as well - if a culture was imperialist/colonial, they wanted their culture to spread, so it's fine by them, even encouraged, when others use their names. If a culture was actively oppressed, they are more protective and naturally are suspicious of their names being used as ornaments.
Regardless I think anyone considering doing this should just accept that someone will find their choice distasteful or weird, at some point, and prepare themselves to answer questions or experience confrontations.
Regardless I think anyone considering doing this should just accept that someone will find their choice distasteful or weird, at some point, and prepare themselves to answer questions or experience confrontations.
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I mostly agree with the you about it coming down to a colonizer vs colonized issue, but I think in the US there is kind of a gray area when it comes to Spanish names in particular. Spain was one of the most powerful colonial nations, but in the modern day United States Spanish speakers are often marginalized and discriminated against. So that’s a bit more complicated imo.
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For sure, it can have a lot of nuance and grey areas. I can understand wanting it to be a simple "right and wrong" issue, but I don't know if there's ever going to be an easy answer for cultural borrowing and influences.
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No. I have no problem with people using names from another language or culture. I happen to love the name Aleksander (this spelling) and would definitely consider using it even though I’m not Russian/Polish.
The only time I think names should be left to people of a particular culture are religious names. You might not want to use Khadijah or Mohammed if you’re not Muslim or Krishna if you’re not Hindu.
The only time I think names should be left to people of a particular culture are religious names. You might not want to use Khadijah or Mohammed if you’re not Muslim or Krishna if you’re not Hindu.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 4:41 AM
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Not American, but I have a lot of Islamic friends and I've asked them once if they'd have a trouble if I gave my daughter an Arabic like Khadija, Latifa or Safiyya and they have no problem with it.
I often think that "we, Western people" make more fuss about it than anyone else. It's not up to us if it's offensive. Ask those around you from a particular culture and you'll see that most don't have a problem with. I think offensive names are more along the lines of Himmler etc.
I often think that "we, Western people" make more fuss about it than anyone else. It's not up to us if it's offensive. Ask those around you from a particular culture and you'll see that most don't have a problem with. I think offensive names are more along the lines of Himmler etc.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 5:06 AM
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I don’t really think it’s offensive for a non-Muslim to use a traditionally Muslim/Arabic name. Names such as Samir, Yasmin and Alia are not totally associated with Islam but more with Arabic culture. There are many Arab Christians. The only problem with using a name that is almost 100% associated with Islam is that people will jump to conclusions. I worked with a girl named Khadijah who was not Muslim but people were always saying things like “Oh you’re Muslim” or “You must be Muslim.” She was always having to say “Not Muslim. My parents just liked the name.”
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Not American, but it does depend on the culture. Names from European countries are mostly fine, though do you really want to name your child Hans or Marek if you have absolutely zero connection to a Germanic country or Poland respectively? Not offensive, just a little odd.
On the other hand, it has the potential to be appropriative if you’re dealing with non-white/non-western cultures (assuming it’s white Americans we’re talking about).
On the other hand, it has the potential to be appropriative if you’re dealing with non-white/non-western cultures (assuming it’s white Americans we’re talking about).
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Not an American, but from an another English speaking country
I think it is weird, then again I'm someone who thinks of things like the following :
If I were to travel to or meet someone from culture X, what would they think of me using a name from culture X?
If I had one parent from culture X and that's the reason why, I think that they would understand and that would give us something to talk about.
If I did it because my Mother watched a TV show, saw the name and thought it was cool, they would probably understand but they might think it strange. They may think : why not give your child a name from your own culture? What is wrong with the names from your own culture?
I will now use the French language as an example. If I named my child something that was either incorrectly spelt in another language (e.g. Bellamy) or a word that is never used as a name in their language (e.g. Jolie) would that cause teasing or laughter about the name behind their back?
Just a few things to think about.
I think it is weird, then again I'm someone who thinks of things like the following :
If I were to travel to or meet someone from culture X, what would they think of me using a name from culture X?
If I had one parent from culture X and that's the reason why, I think that they would understand and that would give us something to talk about.
If I did it because my Mother watched a TV show, saw the name and thought it was cool, they would probably understand but they might think it strange. They may think : why not give your child a name from your own culture? What is wrong with the names from your own culture?
I will now use the French language as an example. If I named my child something that was either incorrectly spelt in another language (e.g. Bellamy) or a word that is never used as a name in their language (e.g. Jolie) would that cause teasing or laughter about the name behind their back?
Just a few things to think about.
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Not in real life! Only on Opinions boards, where I'm projecting my own comfort-zone onto anyone who is "like me." In real life, I encounter people as individuals, not members of cultural/national/ethnic groups. I mean, everyone carries around stereotypes that set some expectations, because that helps us not be numbskulled - and I'm no exception .... but an individual who doesn't conform to my expectations isn't "weird" or "distasteful" in any situation IMO. So if someone "in my group" used a name I would not be comfy using, myself - it would just indicate that they're not as much like me as my stereotypes suggest.
I'm a monolingual "Anglo" American.
There are names I wouldn't be comfy using myself and I might say it seemed weird, in theory, for "someone like me" to use them (although I don't really think I'd react that way in real life).
All of them would be unusual usages if someone "like me" used them. Once they're popularized it doesn't matter anymore.
I guess I have discomfort based on ...
- feeling I'm too ignorant about the "home" context,
- feeling incompetent to pronounce,
- feeling like it sounds like / reminds of something negative in English language or American culture,
- feeling like there's a historical, cultural, or political norm, in the US, that the name can be used by people to deliberately distinguish themselves as members of a group I'm not connected with.
I'm a monolingual "Anglo" American.
There are names I wouldn't be comfy using myself and I might say it seemed weird, in theory, for "someone like me" to use them (although I don't really think I'd react that way in real life).
All of them would be unusual usages if someone "like me" used them. Once they're popularized it doesn't matter anymore.
I guess I have discomfort based on ...
- feeling I'm too ignorant about the "home" context,
- feeling incompetent to pronounce,
- feeling like it sounds like / reminds of something negative in English language or American culture,
- feeling like there's a historical, cultural, or political norm, in the US, that the name can be used by people to deliberately distinguish themselves as members of a group I'm not connected with.
This message was edited 9/6/2023, 9:05 PM
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Hi!
Not the same thing but for example in recent decades Italian newborns may have English names such as Emily, Jennifer, Brian, Jason, Kevin ... And nobody has Anglo-something roots. Actually thoughts about them are very polarized: people who like them think that names are good if you like them, not depending on the language. The ones who dislike them think that they are trashy because we are Italians without any ties with these names.
I personally think that anyone should use the names that have a special tie for her/him. For example I'm fond of Ireland and Erin, Saoirse, Collins (m), Finn, Conor ... Are in my list. I perfectly know that they would be odd and difficult to spell, write and pronounce in my country so my strategy is to use a middle name so it's good for anyone... Random examples:
Dalia Erin
Aida Saoirse
Saverio Collins
Alvise Finn
Elio Conor
In my opinion this is the better choice for anyone who likes names different from his/her background.
Not the same thing but for example in recent decades Italian newborns may have English names such as Emily, Jennifer, Brian, Jason, Kevin ... And nobody has Anglo-something roots. Actually thoughts about them are very polarized: people who like them think that names are good if you like them, not depending on the language. The ones who dislike them think that they are trashy because we are Italians without any ties with these names.
I personally think that anyone should use the names that have a special tie for her/him. For example I'm fond of Ireland and Erin, Saoirse, Collins (m), Finn, Conor ... Are in my list. I perfectly know that they would be odd and difficult to spell, write and pronounce in my country so my strategy is to use a middle name so it's good for anyone... Random examples:
Dalia Erin
Aida Saoirse
Saverio Collins
Alvise Finn
Elio Conor
In my opinion this is the better choice for anyone who likes names different from his/her background.
This message was edited 9/6/2023, 3:01 PM
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See, as an American myself, most people that have been living here for 3, 4 or more generations now have little idea of what "precise" genealogy they actually have, at least in what I have observed. Precise genealogy and naming based on genealogy feels like a moot point to many. Most people just use what they like these days whether it aligns with their heritage or not and most don't bat an eye. I'm about 75% German myself but am 4th generation in on one side of the family and 3rd on the other. Sure, I like plenty of German names but it feels very odd for anyone to imply I should only be using names from a place I have never been and have retrospectively distant connection to. I like what I like and cultural connections feel more like a fun little nod than anything else concrete in practice. To me, it feels a tad bit like flirting with xenophobia to think we are limited to our own background in naming choices. *not that I am saying you think that! Just in general of the concept* America is such a hogpog of backgrounds it seems silly to limit our choices in that way. I know it is different in other countries/ cultures but this is what I have observed and believe of my own particular region and people. The exception could be made for names that are very obviously of a particular racial group you don't belong to. Such as some African or Asian names I find are less likely for white people to use as opposed to Scottish or Icelandic if you are still some flavor of Caucasian. But even those I think theoretical could be harmless in the right context. I know cultural appropriation is a touchy topic for many on here but I think so long as it isn't "blatant" and is genuinely just a name the parents liked.... that's different. I know several white people with names after Anime characters for instance. Idk. That's just my 2 cents on the matter. It really comes down to so long as the name isn't blatantly harmful in some way, people should get to use what they want without judgment, IMO.
This message was edited 9/5/2023, 3:28 PM
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There probably are some I would think were ill-advised (maybe Cohen for example, even though I don't care about Adonai or Saint, for reasons), but I feel like this is too vague a question to really answer. Most names are less American than Plutina and Zitkala, yet those are foreign for most Americans. American culture is different than English culture, and many many names have had use in America - I wouldn't even know which haven't.
In general, I think it makes sense for people not to use names that seem exclusively foreign to them, but that doesn't mean anything about a specific language, broadly. Like there are many Arabic, Greek, German, Hebrew, Spanish, Irish, Italian, and French names that don't seem foreign/unfamiliar to me, so for example, I'd be comfortable using girl names like Nomiki, Carmen, Siobhan, Helga, Astrid, Rivka, Francesca, Aisha, Matilde, Simone as a monolingual English speaking American, but I would feel awkward using Matsuko, unless my SO felt it was familiar I guess, because I personally have very little meaningful connection with Japanese culture even as it exists within American culture (maybe other Americans have personal associations with Matsuko like a friend or great-grandmother or fav artist or some other good memory, and it'd be strange to act like that means nothing because they speak English). Although I don't think it's bad or dumb to use foreign seeming names either, necessarily; if a Turkish person wanted to use Plutina despite having no longstanding personal association with it and being completely unfamiliar with its origin and cultural context, I might think that was weird and wonder why but would not care at all.
Or, should Americans only use names in the US top 1000? No.
In general, I think it makes sense for people not to use names that seem exclusively foreign to them, but that doesn't mean anything about a specific language, broadly. Like there are many Arabic, Greek, German, Hebrew, Spanish, Irish, Italian, and French names that don't seem foreign/unfamiliar to me, so for example, I'd be comfortable using girl names like Nomiki, Carmen, Siobhan, Helga, Astrid, Rivka, Francesca, Aisha, Matilde, Simone as a monolingual English speaking American, but I would feel awkward using Matsuko, unless my SO felt it was familiar I guess, because I personally have very little meaningful connection with Japanese culture even as it exists within American culture (maybe other Americans have personal associations with Matsuko like a friend or great-grandmother or fav artist or some other good memory, and it'd be strange to act like that means nothing because they speak English). Although I don't think it's bad or dumb to use foreign seeming names either, necessarily; if a Turkish person wanted to use Plutina despite having no longstanding personal association with it and being completely unfamiliar with its origin and cultural context, I might think that was weird and wonder why but would not care at all.
Or, should Americans only use names in the US top 1000? No.
This message was edited 9/5/2023, 11:56 PM
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Even if your opinion is to stick with the top 1000, then that's a dumb suggestion even for why they're suggesting it. Earlier today I was browsing the 1800s top 1000 and I saw the name Ah
I was like... Ah????? only to click on it and find out it's a Chinese name which isn't normally given as a first name
So people suggesting to stick with the top 1000 don't know what the top 1000 contains lol
I was like... Ah????? only to click on it and find out it's a Chinese name which isn't normally given as a first name
So people suggesting to stick with the top 1000 don't know what the top 1000 contains lol
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I think Ah is more of a title than an actual name??
Would Mohamed be in the top 1000 for the US? Because it’s in the top 1000, if not possibly 100 in some European countries.
Would Mohamed be in the top 1000 for the US? Because it’s in the top 1000, if not possibly 100 in some European countries.
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Yes, Ah is more of a title but has ended up being considered part of a name when Chinese persons immigrate to other countries.
Muhammad (the most common spelling in the USA) is definitely among the top 1000 in the US. On my spellings combined list it ranked 152nd in 2022. So although it's nowhere near as common as it is in several European countries, it's being regularly given to babies born in the United States.
Muhammad (the most common spelling in the USA) is definitely among the top 1000 in the US. On my spellings combined list it ranked 152nd in 2022. So although it's nowhere near as common as it is in several European countries, it's being regularly given to babies born in the United States.
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It might be, but my point was that anybody suggesting to stick to the top 1000 to avoid issues with culture are a little bit wrong about that lol
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Right!! I was confused about how the OP would define an American name. Also (this is a little out of place but rather than make a separate post) I wouldn't feel particularly weird using Hans. There have been lots of American Hans people (it's about as established as American names get outside of the top 100), and Johan is semi-popular here now. German citizens don't have an exclusive on it.
I would feel weird using Muhammad because it's religious seeming, and I'm not Muslim, although I wouldn't use Messiah, Zion, Christian, or Jesus either.
I would feel weird using Muhammad because it's religious seeming, and I'm not Muslim, although I wouldn't use Messiah, Zion, Christian, or Jesus either.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:25 AM
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I think it’s fine to use German and Polish names with no connection to the place, I’d find it a little surprising. I picked Hans because it’s such a stereotypical and quintessential German name. Johan already feels vaguely more international.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable using, say, an Indian name or a Japanese one, though I know a French Yoko who was named so because her parents loved Yoko Ono. I’d use a Biblical name but not a Yiddish /Modern Hebrew one ( Sarah vs Suri or Rebecca vs Rivka for instance ).
I wouldn’t feel comfortable using, say, an Indian name or a Japanese one, though I know a French Yoko who was named so because her parents loved Yoko Ono. I’d use a Biblical name but not a Yiddish /Modern Hebrew one ( Sarah vs Suri or Rebecca vs Rivka for instance ).
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:26 AM
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Yeah, on one hand I understand (I wouldn't use a Japanese name either), but on the other, it's hard to wrap my head around. It's like if 100-200 years from now Somalians were surprised English speaking Americans descended from Somalian immigrants were still using Mohamed (as well as expecting that Muslims and Arabic speakers had not impacted wider American culture) - that'd sound odd, right?
Here there was a pretty obvious switch between Hans and Johan. I think people decided Johan sounds more modern, although I guess part of that could be that it also seems vaguely more French/Spanish.
Here there was a pretty obvious switch between Hans and Johan. I think people decided Johan sounds more modern, although I guess part of that could be that it also seems vaguely more French/Spanish.
This message was edited 9/8/2023, 2:55 AM
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Exactly! In the modern day America (and England) are too much of a melting pot to try and stick to one culture within names, and in trying to do so is almost futile. Where does one even draw the line of who belongs to which culture? Anglos and Saxons were different cultures and am I descended from them? No idea. Am I descended from the Roman invasion? Or the Normans? Also no idea. But if I did and I had confirmed I was descended from the Romans, does this mean I cannot use a French name? Not at all
Similar with America, but even worse if you're trying to be this pedantic about it.
Also, there's a reason why there are language variants of the same name
Similar with America, but even worse if you're trying to be this pedantic about it.
Also, there's a reason why there are language variants of the same name
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If you are descended from anyone who has ancestry primarily from Great Britain with the last couple of centuries, mathematically I can tell you that you are definitely descended from Anglo-Saxons and Romans and Normans as well as Celtic and pre-Celtic residents of Britain. It's been shown mathematically that everyone who has ancestry from Europe west of Poland and north of the Alps and Pyrenees is descended from everyone who was alive in those areas who does have descendants in the year 1000 A.D. And it's probable that almost everyone in Europe and most of Asia and Africa is a descendant of Muhammad, who lived between 571 and 632. We are all distant cousins much more recently than most people guess, because the number of places in your ancestry doubles with every generation you go backwards.
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Yeah, four times. Muhammad is by far the most popular spelling here at #297. If you combine the popular spellings, it's being used at roughly the same rate as Zion (#140).
It might vary by region.
ETA: Yeah it does vary by state. I just looked up Minnesota (there is a big Somalian American community there), and Mohamed is at #85.
It might vary by region.
ETA: Yeah it does vary by state. I just looked up Minnesota (there is a big Somalian American community there), and Mohamed is at #85.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 1:40 AM
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I guess that's another uniquely American name, haha, but maybe only officially: from the comments, it seems like that was probably the beginning of a longer name that didn't get recorded as the first name (by mistake) - it's used for younger people so it's basically like Junior usually is?
Or maybe it was actually Central American, idk. One person related it to Mayans and another to Belize in the comments.
...I don't think it is very likely to appeal to Anglo Americans even if they have Chinese heritage, although yeah, I am surprised about what makes it onto the top 1000 sometimes (Ryatt?! Dutton!! Who knows, if there was a character called Ah on the TV show Yellowstone, Ah might be the fastest rising name now).
Or maybe it was actually Central American, idk. One person related it to Mayans and another to Belize in the comments.
...I don't think it is very likely to appeal to Anglo Americans even if they have Chinese heritage, although yeah, I am surprised about what makes it onto the top 1000 sometimes (Ryatt?! Dutton!! Who knows, if there was a character called Ah on the TV show Yellowstone, Ah might be the fastest rising name now).
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:33 AM
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You're probably right in that it was likely shortened from a full name. The top 1000 contains utterly all sorts, culturally and in general
Edit: Speaking of weird names that was used. I can't remember the name, but I've been trying to find it - there's a name that came from a brand of skin lightener cream in the 1970s. I believe it showed up once and only once. What an odd choice for a name
I'd be interested to see what might happen if Ah was used in a popular TV show, myself lol
Edit: Speaking of weird names that was used. I can't remember the name, but I've been trying to find it - there's a name that came from a brand of skin lightener cream in the 1970s. I believe it showed up once and only once. What an odd choice for a name
I'd be interested to see what might happen if Ah was used in a popular TV show, myself lol
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 12:59 AM
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I can see it. Artra and Nadinola sound kind of cool (and Miss Empire State uses it! So it's like if people say the name meaning is "radiantly successful" and post that on a bunch of naming blogs nowadays.)
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:45 AM
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That's it! Thank you - I've been trying to find it to show somebody lol :)
Edit: I do agree that Arta does have an edge to it and I can see where the appeal is
Edit: I do agree that Arta does have an edge to it and I can see where the appeal is
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:46 AM
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