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Help[Opinions] How do you pronounce "Tr" and "Dr"? Adrian, Tristan, Patricia, etc?
I just watched a YouTube video by Dr. Geoff Lindsey, a British expert on how the English language changes over time, on how the pronunciation of certain words have changed in English-speaking countries over the last 50 years or so, where he was interviewing four experts much younger than himself, including one from the USA. Here is a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCmTKLhHyPc
The majority of the pronunciation differences in this video didn't surprise me at all. But then right at the end they discussed "tr" and "dr", using as main examples the words trip and drip, where he said that the majority of English speakers under the age of 40 -- evidently all around the world -- use the "ch" sound of "chance" in "tr" words and the "j" sound of "John" in "dr" words. As a 72-year-old this completely floored me. I have had no perception that the pronunciation of those words was changing in that way. What completely amazed me was that the young American language expert in the video is himself named Adrian, and said when he was young he was always confused as to why his name was NOT spelling with a "j", as he perceives himself as pronouncing it as with the "j" sound, I guess as "Age-ree-un".
Suddenly I understand the name "Jream" much better. I actually had been assuming this name was probably pronounced "Jay-ream", but now after watching this video I realize that it must simply be a phonetic respelling for younger people of how they perceive themselves as pronouncing the word "dream".
So -- if you are a native speaker of English, how do you say named with "tr" and "dr"? Do you perceive names like Tracy, Patricia, Tristan, Travis, Trenton, Trevor, Trinity, Troy, Trudy, etc. as being pronounced with the "ch" sound of "chance" or "match" before the r's? Does Patrick seem like it should be spelled "Patchrick" to you? Do you pronounce names like Adrian, Andrew, Drew, Drake, Dream, Drusilla, etc. with the "J" sound of John or Jennifer before the "r"? How old are you, and where in the world were you living at around age 14, when one's accent is usually set to that of the other teenagers one is growing up around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCmTKLhHyPc
The majority of the pronunciation differences in this video didn't surprise me at all. But then right at the end they discussed "tr" and "dr", using as main examples the words trip and drip, where he said that the majority of English speakers under the age of 40 -- evidently all around the world -- use the "ch" sound of "chance" in "tr" words and the "j" sound of "John" in "dr" words. As a 72-year-old this completely floored me. I have had no perception that the pronunciation of those words was changing in that way. What completely amazed me was that the young American language expert in the video is himself named Adrian, and said when he was young he was always confused as to why his name was NOT spelling with a "j", as he perceives himself as pronouncing it as with the "j" sound, I guess as "Age-ree-un".
Suddenly I understand the name "Jream" much better. I actually had been assuming this name was probably pronounced "Jay-ream", but now after watching this video I realize that it must simply be a phonetic respelling for younger people of how they perceive themselves as pronouncing the word "dream".
So -- if you are a native speaker of English, how do you say named with "tr" and "dr"? Do you perceive names like Tracy, Patricia, Tristan, Travis, Trenton, Trevor, Trinity, Troy, Trudy, etc. as being pronounced with the "ch" sound of "chance" or "match" before the r's? Does Patrick seem like it should be spelled "Patchrick" to you? Do you pronounce names like Adrian, Andrew, Drew, Drake, Dream, Drusilla, etc. with the "J" sound of John or Jennifer before the "r"? How old are you, and where in the world were you living at around age 14, when one's accent is usually set to that of the other teenagers one is growing up around?
This message was edited 12/11/2023, 6:40 AM
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Replies
52, I was 14 in California 1985
My answer was, certainly I say dr and tr. My mouth does something different if I make jr and chr. How can people even think that they are saying that. I haven't heard it.
But then I thought about it (too hard) and realize that lately, I sometimes do make a slight sh in the midst of tr, or the d in the dr sound is made farther forward than it really should be. Feels like I have a lazy tongue. Like if I say "Patrick" I can hear Pat-(sh)rick ... not quite patch. My son's name has a dr and I say it as dr, for sure - and I think my daughter (17) says it as jr.
I did understand Jream immediately, but kinda doubted I was right at first, because it seemed so novel, and not quite enough the same as Dream, for someone to have invented it. I never would have thought of dr and jr as being interchangeable, either.
My answer was, certainly I say dr and tr. My mouth does something different if I make jr and chr. How can people even think that they are saying that. I haven't heard it.
But then I thought about it (too hard) and realize that lately, I sometimes do make a slight sh in the midst of tr, or the d in the dr sound is made farther forward than it really should be. Feels like I have a lazy tongue. Like if I say "Patrick" I can hear Pat-(sh)rick ... not quite patch. My son's name has a dr and I say it as dr, for sure - and I think my daughter (17) says it as jr.
I did understand Jream immediately, but kinda doubted I was right at first, because it seemed so novel, and not quite enough the same as Dream, for someone to have invented it. I never would have thought of dr and jr as being interchangeable, either.
This message was edited 12/13/2023, 9:30 AM
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I don’t use the ch or j sounds. I’m 39 and in the uk.
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I don’t use the ch or j sounds. I’m in my early 30s, from the UK.
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Yes, I pronounce tr as ch and dr as j, but names like Ajrian... that's awful. (Language influences from central Alabama)
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I don’t perceive a J or Ch sound in Dr- or Tr-.
I do have a son John. My younger kids have pronounced his name more like Dzhon (almost like Dijon, but more abrupt). So rather the opposite where a j sound was perceived to have a D in it.
We do use Orton Gillingham reading instruction so the emphasis on phonemic awareness has created pretty strong delineations for them now.
I am 32 and with major language influences from North Carolina and various regions of Upstate New York.
I do have a son John. My younger kids have pronounced his name more like Dzhon (almost like Dijon, but more abrupt). So rather the opposite where a j sound was perceived to have a D in it.
We do use Orton Gillingham reading instruction so the emphasis on phonemic awareness has created pretty strong delineations for them now.
I am 32 and with major language influences from North Carolina and various regions of Upstate New York.
This message was edited 12/11/2023, 7:11 AM
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I'm 33 and was living on Long Island (NY), where I was born and raised, when I was 14. Like the younger people profiled in the video, I pronounce "tr" roughly as "chr" and "dr" roughly as "jr." Phonetically, then, Jream immediately made sense to me when I encountered it, but I find it conceptually/aesthetically abominable.
This message was edited 12/11/2023, 7:01 AM
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No I don't pronounce the ch or J. I'm over 50 and was in Australia at age 14
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