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ArchivesRe: "Jewish" surnames?
in reply to a message by kynaston
Jewish is a religion. The other nationalities in the list of nationalities are nationalities.
My name is not "Jewish," and it is uncommon in the US though common in Germanic countries. When I am asked the nationality of my name, I am not being asked my religion. If the site were to divide names by religion, okay, but it is only doing so for one religion.
Your history is indecipherable; I don't know what time in history you're referring to. There have been many times in history that Jews have left their homelands, and your ideas about assimilation ("When surnames were becoming hereditary, Jews did not inhabit one single country but still used a common language") is false and predicated on dates and countries unmentioned in your post -- again, when in history, what countries, why do you assume Jews in particular did not take the tongue of the country to which they moved...?
And, as you said, as a language, Jewish is not one; nor is it a nationality. To ask me my nationality--where is my family from--and expect Jewish rather than German as an answer is prejudiced. I don't expect "Christian" if I hear an unusual name and ask a person where he's from.
Of course it's offensive, as is your post which proports to know history yet is muddled by inaccuracy and starts "Where to begin..." then ends "Hope this helps you understand a little bit." Of course it wasn't informative, other than to show why, perhaps, there is the bias on the existing list of nationalities.
My name is not "Jewish," and it is uncommon in the US though common in Germanic countries. When I am asked the nationality of my name, I am not being asked my religion. If the site were to divide names by religion, okay, but it is only doing so for one religion.
Your history is indecipherable; I don't know what time in history you're referring to. There have been many times in history that Jews have left their homelands, and your ideas about assimilation ("When surnames were becoming hereditary, Jews did not inhabit one single country but still used a common language") is false and predicated on dates and countries unmentioned in your post -- again, when in history, what countries, why do you assume Jews in particular did not take the tongue of the country to which they moved...?
And, as you said, as a language, Jewish is not one; nor is it a nationality. To ask me my nationality--where is my family from--and expect Jewish rather than German as an answer is prejudiced. I don't expect "Christian" if I hear an unusual name and ask a person where he's from.
Of course it's offensive, as is your post which proports to know history yet is muddled by inaccuracy and starts "Where to begin..." then ends "Hope this helps you understand a little bit." Of course it wasn't informative, other than to show why, perhaps, there is the bias on the existing list of nationalities.
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Replies
And, as you said, as a language, Jewish is not one; nor is it a nationality. To ask me my nationality--where is my family from--and expect Jewish rather than German as an answer is prejudiced. I don't expect "Christian" if I hear an unusual name and ask a person where he's from.
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That is why we no longer refer to one's Christian name. Afraid to offend someone.
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That is why we no longer refer to one's Christian name. Afraid to offend someone.
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Sorry about my previous post, I sort of had too many thoughts in my head and couldn't get them out properly.
This label of 'Jewish names' is necessay because the names it covers are unique to the religion or have a specific etymology based on a Hebrew related language. Also surnames are not only listed as nationalities but also as languages, and Muslim names are often called Muslim names not necessarily Iraqi etc.
"why do you assume Jews in particular did not take the tongue of the country to which they moved...? "
Of course they took on the language of the country they inhabited and I never suggested otherwise but you cannot possibly deny the influence Hebrew would have had on the language that they used, eg. Yiddish (that's all I was saying).
I myself have Jewish blood, and personally don't see what there is to take offence at, for me when looking up my ancestors find that gaining information from surnames helps.
"My name is not "Jewish," and it is uncommon in the US though common in Germanic countries. "
Every classification has exceptions of course, I'm sure many people with English surnames are not English or do not have English blood. I'm sure that there are people with surnames considered Muslim, that are Christians.
"To ask me my nationality--where is my family from--and expect Jewish rather than German as an answer is prejudiced."
This I find rather strange. If I asked you where your family came from (and they came from Germany), I personally would expect you to say Germany not Jewish - that makes no sense. But I personally find that all the categorization of certain surnames as Jewish adds an extra dimension to the history of a name, it's shows that your family were not only German but (probably) of Jewish extraction. I would rather my surname (Brown - yawn) told me more about my history and ancestry and if my surname could tell me my more I would be happier not offended.
I don't have an arguement against you being offended, I don't see what offends you, but it's up to you. I personally have never met another Jew who found the classification offensive (there was even a Jewish website that was claiming non-Jews with Jewish surnames - such as Ben Cohen, who has Jewish ancestry but isn't Jewish himself - as a joke) and I'm sure you will find that most experts on Jewish surnames are in fact Jewish.
This label of 'Jewish names' is necessay because the names it covers are unique to the religion or have a specific etymology based on a Hebrew related language. Also surnames are not only listed as nationalities but also as languages, and Muslim names are often called Muslim names not necessarily Iraqi etc.
"why do you assume Jews in particular did not take the tongue of the country to which they moved...? "
Of course they took on the language of the country they inhabited and I never suggested otherwise but you cannot possibly deny the influence Hebrew would have had on the language that they used, eg. Yiddish (that's all I was saying).
I myself have Jewish blood, and personally don't see what there is to take offence at, for me when looking up my ancestors find that gaining information from surnames helps.
"My name is not "Jewish," and it is uncommon in the US though common in Germanic countries. "
Every classification has exceptions of course, I'm sure many people with English surnames are not English or do not have English blood. I'm sure that there are people with surnames considered Muslim, that are Christians.
"To ask me my nationality--where is my family from--and expect Jewish rather than German as an answer is prejudiced."
This I find rather strange. If I asked you where your family came from (and they came from Germany), I personally would expect you to say Germany not Jewish - that makes no sense. But I personally find that all the categorization of certain surnames as Jewish adds an extra dimension to the history of a name, it's shows that your family were not only German but (probably) of Jewish extraction. I would rather my surname (Brown - yawn) told me more about my history and ancestry and if my surname could tell me my more I would be happier not offended.
I don't have an arguement against you being offended, I don't see what offends you, but it's up to you. I personally have never met another Jew who found the classification offensive (there was even a Jewish website that was claiming non-Jews with Jewish surnames - such as Ben Cohen, who has Jewish ancestry but isn't Jewish himself - as a joke) and I'm sure you will find that most experts on Jewish surnames are in fact Jewish.
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