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Help[Facts] Re: Provencal? French? Little green space alienese?
in reply to a message by Lumia
Wow, Lumia, this is beyond wonderful! If you ever come to South Africa, there'll be a big chocolate cake awaiting you ...
It makes total sense for such an old name to have a Germanic origin! I was wondering about that, but in Eleanor of Aquitaine's time it would be pretty improbable. But your 10th century references solve that issue conclusively, I'd say. They also explain how what would otherwise have been a nonce name - a one-off - apparently caught on fast all over Europe and remained in use: it was there all the time ...
Don't know that the dropped -d- is necessarily hypochoristic, though. It could have disappeared after turning into a Cockney-style glottal stop (usually done with /t/, but I've heard /d/ pronounced with that ' as well); or, it's also possible to get from /d/ to /l/ quickly and easily if the /d/ is rapidly pronounced, more like a flap, so you end up close to the Welsh double-l (though not the Spanish :)); from that to a single /l/ is a small step.
And we might even be able to retain cute little baby Eleanor: her first attempts to say her own name could have reminded the adults around her of great-great-granny Alienor de Thouars, or simply of Ali-Aenor, and it would then have become the name that she was known by.
Your research should be more widely known ...
All the best
It makes total sense for such an old name to have a Germanic origin! I was wondering about that, but in Eleanor of Aquitaine's time it would be pretty improbable. But your 10th century references solve that issue conclusively, I'd say. They also explain how what would otherwise have been a nonce name - a one-off - apparently caught on fast all over Europe and remained in use: it was there all the time ...
Don't know that the dropped -d- is necessarily hypochoristic, though. It could have disappeared after turning into a Cockney-style glottal stop (usually done with /t/, but I've heard /d/ pronounced with that ' as well); or, it's also possible to get from /d/ to /l/ quickly and easily if the /d/ is rapidly pronounced, more like a flap, so you end up close to the Welsh double-l (though not the Spanish :)); from that to a single /l/ is a small step.
And we might even be able to retain cute little baby Eleanor: her first attempts to say her own name could have reminded the adults around her of great-great-granny Alienor de Thouars, or simply of Ali-Aenor, and it would then have become the name that she was known by.
Your research should be more widely known ...
All the best
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