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Help[Facts] Re: Italian Pronunciation of Giacomo
in reply to a message by Elena
He was right - in Italian Giacomo, the first sylable is stressed.
However, things are really ambiguous. My conclusion in advance:
If Giacomo corresponds to Jacob and Greek was the source, we may assume "Jah-KO-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to Jacob and Latin was the source, we may assume "JAH-ko-mo".
"Jah-KO-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to James and Greek was the source, we may assume "JAH-ko-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to James and Latin was the source, we may assume "Jah-KO-mo".
This is a byblical name (Jacob) and there are at least two persons with the name Jacob so that I cannot say of they have really the same name. Here are two text excerpts originally written in Greek.
[Ad Romanos, 9:13]
"Sicut scriptum est Iacob dilexi Esau autem odio habui."
"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
This Jacob is mentioned in the Old Testament also. In the Greek text, the stress is on the "o" (it is an omega there). This name is not declined neither in Greek nor in Latin - no special accusative forms are used in this case. This name is not changed in the English translation.
[Mathiew, 10:2]
"Duodecim autem apostolorum nomina sunt haec: primus Simon qui dicitur Petrus, et Andreas frater eius, Iacobus Zebedaei, et Johannes frater eius, .."
"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: the first, Simon, who is called Petere, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, .."
Here, the name Jacobus is declined in both Greek and Latin. In English, it is translated as James. In Greek, the "o" is omega again (a long vowel) but the stress in Greek is on the "a". In Latin, nevertheless, the stress should be on the "o" if it is long! Thus, I have to assume that Iacobus was pronounced with a short unstressed "o" in Latin so that this name chanhed to Giacomo (the stress on the "a"), Jacques (French) and James (English). Someone may assume the stress on "o" in Latin (as it should be according the rules) and trerefore the stress on "o" in the Italian Giacomo.
It would be interesting to me if these names (Jacob and James, Latin Iacob et Iacobus) are really the same in Hebrew.
However, things are really ambiguous. My conclusion in advance:
If Giacomo corresponds to Jacob and Greek was the source, we may assume "Jah-KO-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to Jacob and Latin was the source, we may assume "JAH-ko-mo".
"Jah-KO-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to James and Greek was the source, we may assume "JAH-ko-mo".
If Giacomo corresponds to James and Latin was the source, we may assume "Jah-KO-mo".
This is a byblical name (Jacob) and there are at least two persons with the name Jacob so that I cannot say of they have really the same name. Here are two text excerpts originally written in Greek.
[Ad Romanos, 9:13]
"Sicut scriptum est Iacob dilexi Esau autem odio habui."
"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
This Jacob is mentioned in the Old Testament also. In the Greek text, the stress is on the "o" (it is an omega there). This name is not declined neither in Greek nor in Latin - no special accusative forms are used in this case. This name is not changed in the English translation.
[Mathiew, 10:2]
"Duodecim autem apostolorum nomina sunt haec: primus Simon qui dicitur Petrus, et Andreas frater eius, Iacobus Zebedaei, et Johannes frater eius, .."
"Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: the first, Simon, who is called Petere, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, .."
Here, the name Jacobus is declined in both Greek and Latin. In English, it is translated as James. In Greek, the "o" is omega again (a long vowel) but the stress in Greek is on the "a". In Latin, nevertheless, the stress should be on the "o" if it is long! Thus, I have to assume that Iacobus was pronounced with a short unstressed "o" in Latin so that this name chanhed to Giacomo (the stress on the "a"), Jacques (French) and James (English). Someone may assume the stress on "o" in Latin (as it should be according the rules) and trerefore the stress on "o" in the Italian Giacomo.
It would be interesting to me if these names (Jacob and James, Latin Iacob et Iacobus) are really the same in Hebrew.
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Replies
You wrote
> It would be interesting to me if these names (Jacob and James, Latin Iacob et Iacobus) are really the same in Hebrew. <
As far as I can tell there is no Hebrew James. Yaacov, and its variations, are Jacob.
I searched briefly and came to this discussion; I'm sure there are others as well: http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa138.htm
> It would be interesting to me if these names (Jacob and James, Latin Iacob et Iacobus) are really the same in Hebrew. <
As far as I can tell there is no Hebrew James. Yaacov, and its variations, are Jacob.
I searched briefly and came to this discussion; I'm sure there are others as well: http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa138.htm
1
Re: Giovanni: It sounds different in Italian because of the accent, so it isn't as straightforward as one syllable over the other. It comes out like JYO-VAAHN-nee. The first syllable is stressed, the second syllable is dragged out for a longer time, with the 'n' from the second syllable bleeding into the third syllable.
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Question: So does that mean the first syllable is ALWAYS stressed in Italian?
Answer: No, it doesn't. I had in mind the following: the stress in Italian usually preserves its postion in Latin. Actually, there are no rules for the stress position in Italian, but there are such rules for Latin. E.g., the last sylable cannot be stressed (for more precisity, enclitic additions (-quo, -que) are considered to be the last sylables).
About Giovanni: It is "jo-VAHN-nee" in Italian since it was "io-HAN-nes" (Iohannes) in Latin.
Answer: No, it doesn't. I had in mind the following: the stress in Italian usually preserves its postion in Latin. Actually, there are no rules for the stress position in Italian, but there are such rules for Latin. E.g., the last sylable cannot be stressed (for more precisity, enclitic additions (-quo, -que) are considered to be the last sylables).
About Giovanni: It is "jo-VAHN-nee" in Italian since it was "io-HAN-nes" (Iohannes) in Latin.
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Italian "città" as well as Spanish "ciudad" and French "cité" are descendents from Latin "civitatem" and the stress is preserved on "a". So, it is not an exception.
The rule that the last sylable cannot be stressed is valid for Latin, not for Italian.
The rule that the last sylable cannot be stressed is valid for Latin, not for Italian.
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Isn't it città not cittá?
:-)
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
:-)
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
1