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I love how this resolved. Props to you Katie and Ismene and to you queenv for all discussing this in a conversation that while it became kind of heated at times, no one resorted to name calling or anything and you guys all really listened to each other.

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This isn't meant to be patronizing at all, I promise. It's really hard to have conversations about difficult topics with people we don't know in real life over text on a forum. People don't always express themselves properly in writing and we lose the tone and other nuances. We have had these debates turn SO ugly in the past and it just makes me really happy that some members here could have a really difficult discussion, coming at it from some different view points, and reach a conclusion from listening to one another.

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Like really happy :)