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Help[Opinions] Re: Native American names (U.S. only)
in reply to a message by holeyg
But people of non-white races haven't been as involved in the oppression, and so it doesn't carry the same weight when they use the names. People also use "admiration" and a tenuous, vague "ancestor a few generations back" explanation to don headdresses and war paint and buckskins when they don't even remotely identify as Indigenous. If we all cringe at that, how is it somehow okay to take a different symbol of that race such as a name and make their child wear it for life?
There are very few things that bother my husband about races misappropriating his culture, actually. The rest of his family is much more likely to be hurt by the actions of others. But even he can go on a pretty fair rant about dreamcatchers. Most of the ones people have are manufactured in other countries like China and purchased from non-Native-run novelty shops, often with semi-precious, badly researched explanations about what they're supposed to do and represent. Even the ones sold from reservations can be inauthentic. It's difficult for reservations to have business infrastructure. Governments typically staked out the land because nobody else wanted it... awful soil for growing things, remote or inaccessible location, rocky or swampy ground, etc. And at least where I'm from, owning property on a reservation is not like owning property off of it. So no big business is going to come to a reserve if they can't have true ownership and can’t be sure if the government is going to snatch the land out from under them at any time. And it's hard for small, family-owned businesses to build up around nothing, especially when they have the same land ownership problems. There are only a few businesses that ever seem to do well: casinos, tobacco shops and places that sell kitchy, touristy crap. So even if your soul is dying by selling those things, you still need to feed your family, so you're going to do it. You usually can find beautiful examples of local Native artistry at those same shops and it's wonderful to support those endeavours. But the big sellers are the iconic but less authentic cheap crap.
Are you seriously suggesting that because my one common example happens to be female that I'm feeding the misogynists and neo-nazis and buying into their propaganda? If you truly believe that and aren't just using it as a gateway to start a different set of arguments, then no amount of rational explanation or critical thinking on my part is going to allow us to agree.
There are very few things that bother my husband about races misappropriating his culture, actually. The rest of his family is much more likely to be hurt by the actions of others. But even he can go on a pretty fair rant about dreamcatchers. Most of the ones people have are manufactured in other countries like China and purchased from non-Native-run novelty shops, often with semi-precious, badly researched explanations about what they're supposed to do and represent. Even the ones sold from reservations can be inauthentic. It's difficult for reservations to have business infrastructure. Governments typically staked out the land because nobody else wanted it... awful soil for growing things, remote or inaccessible location, rocky or swampy ground, etc. And at least where I'm from, owning property on a reservation is not like owning property off of it. So no big business is going to come to a reserve if they can't have true ownership and can’t be sure if the government is going to snatch the land out from under them at any time. And it's hard for small, family-owned businesses to build up around nothing, especially when they have the same land ownership problems. There are only a few businesses that ever seem to do well: casinos, tobacco shops and places that sell kitchy, touristy crap. So even if your soul is dying by selling those things, you still need to feed your family, so you're going to do it. You usually can find beautiful examples of local Native artistry at those same shops and it's wonderful to support those endeavours. But the big sellers are the iconic but less authentic cheap crap.
Are you seriously suggesting that because my one common example happens to be female that I'm feeding the misogynists and neo-nazis and buying into their propaganda? If you truly believe that and aren't just using it as a gateway to start a different set of arguments, then no amount of rational explanation or critical thinking on my part is going to allow us to agree.
This message was edited 10/3/2019, 5:45 AM
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Replies
>Are you seriously suggesting that because my one common example happens to be female that I'm feeding the misogynists and neo-nazis and buying into their propaganda?
I certainly don't think you're buying into neo-Nazi propaganda! What I'm trying to say is that if, when addressing historic injustices (or, to be blunt, atrocities), you do it by being hostile to people of a particular race NOW, you're reinforcing racial division. Even if you are being a "good guy" and taking the side of a historically oppressed group, you're still portraying the situation as "white people today vs. Native Americans today." And I do think that mentality - while certainly not responsible for the neo-Nazi resurgence - reinforces the one-race-against-another worldview.
Acknowledged, it was only the one example that was female. To me it seemed very reminiscent of references to "Karen" or "Becky" that imply that white WOMEN are the primary perpetrators of racism and general entitlement.
>People also use "admiration" and a tenuous, vague "ancestor a few generations back" explanation to don headdresses and war paint and buckskins when they don't even remotely identify as Indigenous.
I've never seen that but I'll take your word for it. What if they do consider themselves to be partly Native American because of a definite ancestor a few generations back, though? I also think it's unkind to talk as though people doing this are just coming up with specious excuses to do something insulting, rather than acting out of naivete.
Getting back to names, though - I'd think a black person using a Native American name with some fake meaning from the internet would be just as bad as a white person doing it. I know I'd find "Tiger Lily" cringeworthy either way, for example.
>If you truly believe that and aren't just using it as a gateway to start a different set of arguments, then no amount of rational explanation or critical thinking on my part is going to allow us to agree.
So I'm either being disingenuous or I'm a cretin who is impervious to the power of your rationality and critical thinking? I hate it when people make jerk comments like that.
I certainly don't think you're buying into neo-Nazi propaganda! What I'm trying to say is that if, when addressing historic injustices (or, to be blunt, atrocities), you do it by being hostile to people of a particular race NOW, you're reinforcing racial division. Even if you are being a "good guy" and taking the side of a historically oppressed group, you're still portraying the situation as "white people today vs. Native Americans today." And I do think that mentality - while certainly not responsible for the neo-Nazi resurgence - reinforces the one-race-against-another worldview.
Acknowledged, it was only the one example that was female. To me it seemed very reminiscent of references to "Karen" or "Becky" that imply that white WOMEN are the primary perpetrators of racism and general entitlement.
>People also use "admiration" and a tenuous, vague "ancestor a few generations back" explanation to don headdresses and war paint and buckskins when they don't even remotely identify as Indigenous.
I've never seen that but I'll take your word for it. What if they do consider themselves to be partly Native American because of a definite ancestor a few generations back, though? I also think it's unkind to talk as though people doing this are just coming up with specious excuses to do something insulting, rather than acting out of naivete.
Getting back to names, though - I'd think a black person using a Native American name with some fake meaning from the internet would be just as bad as a white person doing it. I know I'd find "Tiger Lily" cringeworthy either way, for example.
>If you truly believe that and aren't just using it as a gateway to start a different set of arguments, then no amount of rational explanation or critical thinking on my part is going to allow us to agree.
So I'm either being disingenuous or I'm a cretin who is impervious to the power of your rationality and critical thinking? I hate it when people make jerk comments like that.
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