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Help[Opinions] Re: Using a name from another culture as an American
in reply to a message by Olwen
There probably are some I would think were ill-advised (maybe Cohen for example, even though I don't care about Adonai or Saint, for reasons), but I feel like this is too vague a question to really answer. Most names are less American than Plutina and Zitkala, yet those are foreign for most Americans. American culture is different than English culture, and many many names have had use in America - I wouldn't even know which haven't.
In general, I think it makes sense for people not to use names that seem exclusively foreign to them, but that doesn't mean anything about a specific language, broadly. Like there are many Arabic, Greek, German, Hebrew, Spanish, Irish, Italian, and French names that don't seem foreign/unfamiliar to me, so for example, I'd be comfortable using girl names like Nomiki, Carmen, Siobhan, Helga, Astrid, Rivka, Francesca, Aisha, Matilde, Simone as a monolingual English speaking American, but I would feel awkward using Matsuko, unless my SO felt it was familiar I guess, because I personally have very little meaningful connection with Japanese culture even as it exists within American culture (maybe other Americans have personal associations with Matsuko like a friend or great-grandmother or fav artist or some other good memory, and it'd be strange to act like that means nothing because they speak English). Although I don't think it's bad or dumb to use foreign seeming names either, necessarily; if a Turkish person wanted to use Plutina despite having no longstanding personal association with it and being completely unfamiliar with its origin and cultural context, I might think that was weird and wonder why but would not care at all.
Or, should Americans only use names in the US top 1000? No.
In general, I think it makes sense for people not to use names that seem exclusively foreign to them, but that doesn't mean anything about a specific language, broadly. Like there are many Arabic, Greek, German, Hebrew, Spanish, Irish, Italian, and French names that don't seem foreign/unfamiliar to me, so for example, I'd be comfortable using girl names like Nomiki, Carmen, Siobhan, Helga, Astrid, Rivka, Francesca, Aisha, Matilde, Simone as a monolingual English speaking American, but I would feel awkward using Matsuko, unless my SO felt it was familiar I guess, because I personally have very little meaningful connection with Japanese culture even as it exists within American culture (maybe other Americans have personal associations with Matsuko like a friend or great-grandmother or fav artist or some other good memory, and it'd be strange to act like that means nothing because they speak English). Although I don't think it's bad or dumb to use foreign seeming names either, necessarily; if a Turkish person wanted to use Plutina despite having no longstanding personal association with it and being completely unfamiliar with its origin and cultural context, I might think that was weird and wonder why but would not care at all.
Or, should Americans only use names in the US top 1000? No.
This message was edited 9/5/2023, 11:56 PM
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Even if your opinion is to stick with the top 1000, then that's a dumb suggestion even for why they're suggesting it. Earlier today I was browsing the 1800s top 1000 and I saw the name Ah
I was like... Ah????? only to click on it and find out it's a Chinese name which isn't normally given as a first name
So people suggesting to stick with the top 1000 don't know what the top 1000 contains lol
I was like... Ah????? only to click on it and find out it's a Chinese name which isn't normally given as a first name
So people suggesting to stick with the top 1000 don't know what the top 1000 contains lol
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I think Ah is more of a title than an actual name??
Would Mohamed be in the top 1000 for the US? Because it’s in the top 1000, if not possibly 100 in some European countries.
Would Mohamed be in the top 1000 for the US? Because it’s in the top 1000, if not possibly 100 in some European countries.
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Yes, Ah is more of a title but has ended up being considered part of a name when Chinese persons immigrate to other countries.
Muhammad (the most common spelling in the USA) is definitely among the top 1000 in the US. On my spellings combined list it ranked 152nd in 2022. So although it's nowhere near as common as it is in several European countries, it's being regularly given to babies born in the United States.
Muhammad (the most common spelling in the USA) is definitely among the top 1000 in the US. On my spellings combined list it ranked 152nd in 2022. So although it's nowhere near as common as it is in several European countries, it's being regularly given to babies born in the United States.
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It might be, but my point was that anybody suggesting to stick to the top 1000 to avoid issues with culture are a little bit wrong about that lol
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Right!! I was confused about how the OP would define an American name. Also (this is a little out of place but rather than make a separate post) I wouldn't feel particularly weird using Hans. There have been lots of American Hans people (it's about as established as American names get outside of the top 100), and Johan is semi-popular here now. German citizens don't have an exclusive on it.
I would feel weird using Muhammad because it's religious seeming, and I'm not Muslim, although I wouldn't use Messiah, Zion, Christian, or Jesus either.
I would feel weird using Muhammad because it's religious seeming, and I'm not Muslim, although I wouldn't use Messiah, Zion, Christian, or Jesus either.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:25 AM
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I think it’s fine to use German and Polish names with no connection to the place, I’d find it a little surprising. I picked Hans because it’s such a stereotypical and quintessential German name. Johan already feels vaguely more international.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable using, say, an Indian name or a Japanese one, though I know a French Yoko who was named so because her parents loved Yoko Ono. I’d use a Biblical name but not a Yiddish /Modern Hebrew one ( Sarah vs Suri or Rebecca vs Rivka for instance ).
I wouldn’t feel comfortable using, say, an Indian name or a Japanese one, though I know a French Yoko who was named so because her parents loved Yoko Ono. I’d use a Biblical name but not a Yiddish /Modern Hebrew one ( Sarah vs Suri or Rebecca vs Rivka for instance ).
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:26 AM
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Yeah, on one hand I understand (I wouldn't use a Japanese name either), but on the other, it's hard to wrap my head around. It's like if 100-200 years from now Somalians were surprised English speaking Americans descended from Somalian immigrants were still using Mohamed (as well as expecting that Muslims and Arabic speakers had not impacted wider American culture) - that'd sound odd, right?
Here there was a pretty obvious switch between Hans and Johan. I think people decided Johan sounds more modern, although I guess part of that could be that it also seems vaguely more French/Spanish.
Here there was a pretty obvious switch between Hans and Johan. I think people decided Johan sounds more modern, although I guess part of that could be that it also seems vaguely more French/Spanish.
This message was edited 9/8/2023, 2:55 AM
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Exactly! In the modern day America (and England) are too much of a melting pot to try and stick to one culture within names, and in trying to do so is almost futile. Where does one even draw the line of who belongs to which culture? Anglos and Saxons were different cultures and am I descended from them? No idea. Am I descended from the Roman invasion? Or the Normans? Also no idea. But if I did and I had confirmed I was descended from the Romans, does this mean I cannot use a French name? Not at all
Similar with America, but even worse if you're trying to be this pedantic about it.
Also, there's a reason why there are language variants of the same name
Similar with America, but even worse if you're trying to be this pedantic about it.
Also, there's a reason why there are language variants of the same name
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If you are descended from anyone who has ancestry primarily from Great Britain with the last couple of centuries, mathematically I can tell you that you are definitely descended from Anglo-Saxons and Romans and Normans as well as Celtic and pre-Celtic residents of Britain. It's been shown mathematically that everyone who has ancestry from Europe west of Poland and north of the Alps and Pyrenees is descended from everyone who was alive in those areas who does have descendants in the year 1000 A.D. And it's probable that almost everyone in Europe and most of Asia and Africa is a descendant of Muhammad, who lived between 571 and 632. We are all distant cousins much more recently than most people guess, because the number of places in your ancestry doubles with every generation you go backwards.
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Yeah, four times. Muhammad is by far the most popular spelling here at #297. If you combine the popular spellings, it's being used at roughly the same rate as Zion (#140).
It might vary by region.
ETA: Yeah it does vary by state. I just looked up Minnesota (there is a big Somalian American community there), and Mohamed is at #85.
It might vary by region.
ETA: Yeah it does vary by state. I just looked up Minnesota (there is a big Somalian American community there), and Mohamed is at #85.
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 1:40 AM
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I guess that's another uniquely American name, haha, but maybe only officially: from the comments, it seems like that was probably the beginning of a longer name that didn't get recorded as the first name (by mistake) - it's used for younger people so it's basically like Junior usually is?
Or maybe it was actually Central American, idk. One person related it to Mayans and another to Belize in the comments.
...I don't think it is very likely to appeal to Anglo Americans even if they have Chinese heritage, although yeah, I am surprised about what makes it onto the top 1000 sometimes (Ryatt?! Dutton!! Who knows, if there was a character called Ah on the TV show Yellowstone, Ah might be the fastest rising name now).
Or maybe it was actually Central American, idk. One person related it to Mayans and another to Belize in the comments.
...I don't think it is very likely to appeal to Anglo Americans even if they have Chinese heritage, although yeah, I am surprised about what makes it onto the top 1000 sometimes (Ryatt?! Dutton!! Who knows, if there was a character called Ah on the TV show Yellowstone, Ah might be the fastest rising name now).
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:33 AM
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You're probably right in that it was likely shortened from a full name. The top 1000 contains utterly all sorts, culturally and in general
Edit: Speaking of weird names that was used. I can't remember the name, but I've been trying to find it - there's a name that came from a brand of skin lightener cream in the 1970s. I believe it showed up once and only once. What an odd choice for a name
I'd be interested to see what might happen if Ah was used in a popular TV show, myself lol
Edit: Speaking of weird names that was used. I can't remember the name, but I've been trying to find it - there's a name that came from a brand of skin lightener cream in the 1970s. I believe it showed up once and only once. What an odd choice for a name
I'd be interested to see what might happen if Ah was used in a popular TV show, myself lol
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 12:59 AM
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I can see it. Artra and Nadinola sound kind of cool (and Miss Empire State uses it! So it's like if people say the name meaning is "radiantly successful" and post that on a bunch of naming blogs nowadays.)
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:45 AM
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That's it! Thank you - I've been trying to find it to show somebody lol :)
Edit: I do agree that Arta does have an edge to it and I can see where the appeal is
Edit: I do agree that Arta does have an edge to it and I can see where the appeal is
This message was edited 9/7/2023, 2:46 AM
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