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Help[Facts] It really bothers me so many names submitted under the "Jewish" category are just Yiddish or Ashkenazi names
I suggest that there be a Jewish (Ashkenazi) usage and a Jewish (Spheradi) instead because it's wrong to submit them as "Jewish" Most were exclusively or are exclusively used by Ashkenazi Jews.
This usage can be used as a placeholder for other usages for example:
sometimes I am not sure about the usage of certain Ashkenazi I submit and I think it would be beneficial for other users as well who want to submit a name used by North African Jews, Middle Eastern Jews, for example, or by Sephardim but don't know whether they should submit it under the category Judeo-Spanish or Judeo-Arabic.
Most Jews in America (US) and Canada are Ashkenaizm but it is still wrong in my opinion to list Ashkenazic as "Jewish", In my opinion, it paints a wrong picture for the non-Jewish users of the website.
I understand it is typically a user-assigned category and a placeholder; additionally, the mods have to edit many names, but I still feel the need to point it out
*******
rate my PLN:
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/229415/142623
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/229415/165832
This usage can be used as a placeholder for other usages for example:
sometimes I am not sure about the usage of certain Ashkenazi I submit and I think it would be beneficial for other users as well who want to submit a name used by North African Jews, Middle Eastern Jews, for example, or by Sephardim but don't know whether they should submit it under the category Judeo-Spanish or Judeo-Arabic.
Most Jews in America (US) and Canada are Ashkenaizm but it is still wrong in my opinion to list Ashkenazic as "Jewish", In my opinion, it paints a wrong picture for the non-Jewish users of the website.
I understand it is typically a user-assigned category and a placeholder; additionally, the mods have to edit many names, but I still feel the need to point it out
*******
rate my PLN:
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/229415/142623
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/229415/165832
This message was edited 10/27/2024, 9:58 AM
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Replies
I've added "Jewish (Sephardic)" and J"ewish (Ashkenazi)". I would suggest not using these (as well as the even broader "Jewish") unless the name cannot be more accurately placed in a narrower category.
Note: if a name is, say, Yiddish, you do NOT need to categorize it as BOTH Yiddish and Ashkenazi. If you place it in the Yiddish category it will also automatically be included on the Ashkenazi page.
Note: if a name is, say, Yiddish, you do NOT need to categorize it as BOTH Yiddish and Ashkenazi. If you place it in the Yiddish category it will also automatically be included on the Ashkenazi page.
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Thank you, Mike!
However, I have a couple of doubts. What is the difference between Judeo-Spanish and Jewish (Sephardic) names? Does the former refer to medieval names (e.g. Aljohar (https://www.behindthename.com/name/aljohar/submitted)) while Sephardic can be applied to contemporary names?
Besides, I assume that a name such as Mordehaj (https://www.behindthename.com/name/mordehaj/submitted), which has been recorded in Kosovo, Serbia and Poland, can be listed as an Ashkenazi name. However, can the same term be applied to 20th-century Polonized Jewish names (e.g. Dwora (https://www.behindthename.com/name/dwora/submitted))? Or do those fall under the "Jewish (Polonized)" category?
However, I have a couple of doubts. What is the difference between Judeo-Spanish and Jewish (Sephardic) names? Does the former refer to medieval names (e.g. Aljohar (https://www.behindthename.com/name/aljohar/submitted)) while Sephardic can be applied to contemporary names?
Besides, I assume that a name such as Mordehaj (https://www.behindthename.com/name/mordehaj/submitted), which has been recorded in Kosovo, Serbia and Poland, can be listed as an Ashkenazi name. However, can the same term be applied to 20th-century Polonized Jewish names (e.g. Dwora (https://www.behindthename.com/name/dwora/submitted))? Or do those fall under the "Jewish (Polonized)" category?
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History nitpick: Kosovo and Serbia were part of the Ottoman Empire, you can expect Sephardic Jews there since many of them sought refugee in the Ottoman empire after 1492/1496 (the two dates apply for Spain and Portugal respectively)
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another nitpicking: Sephardic names were also found in Medieval Europe as well, specifically in Germany, this is how German German Jews were introduced to names like Sasson, Simcha, and Sprinze (Esperanza)
the line between what was defined as Sephardi or Ashkenazi was very thin in the Middle Ages.
I believe that the information was said somewhere in Alexander Bieders's research "A Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names"
the line between what was defined as Sephardi or Ashkenazi was very thin in the Middle Ages.
I believe that the information was said somewhere in Alexander Bieders's research "A Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names"
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Judeo-Spanish could be applied to names that are linguistically Judeo-Spanish/Ladino. Jewish (Sephardic) could be applied to names that are not Judeo-Spanish, but are for whatever reason used by Sephardic Jews (perhaps picked up in the diaspora to North Africa -- I am not currently familiarized with Sephardic names).
Additionally, there is no Judeo-Portuguese category, so Jewish (Sephardic) could be used for those.
I think for your example, Dwora, the category Jewish (Polonized) would fit well.
For more traditional Jewish names from Eastern Europe, if they were/are used by Yiddish speakers I would categorize them as Yiddish. Otherwise Jewish (Ashkenazi) could be used. There is also a Judeo-Slavic category which might be useful. It is currently defined as a synonym of Knaanic, which sort of limits it geographically to the West Slavic region, but I could "broaden" it to refer to all Slavic areas.
Additionally, there is no Judeo-Portuguese category, so Jewish (Sephardic) could be used for those.
I think for your example, Dwora, the category Jewish (Polonized) would fit well.
For more traditional Jewish names from Eastern Europe, if they were/are used by Yiddish speakers I would categorize them as Yiddish. Otherwise Jewish (Ashkenazi) could be used. There is also a Judeo-Slavic category which might be useful. It is currently defined as a synonym of Knaanic, which sort of limits it geographically to the West Slavic region, but I could "broaden" it to refer to all Slavic areas.
This message was edited 11/1/2024, 12:18 PM
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Judeo-Slavic only refers to names borne by Ashkenazi Jews living in medieval Slavic Europe. Jewish (Ashkenazi) would be more accurate for contemporary names.
Once again, thanks.
Once again, thanks.
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I'm quite aware of the "all Jews are Ashkenazi" stereotype, and I know that it's wrong since it erases the diversity of the Jewish community around the world. There are some non-Ashkenazi Jewish names in the submitted database, such as the ones listed under Judeo-Spanish (many of which are historically attested Sephardic names).
I just removed "Jewish" from one of the names I submitted (Schönche).
I just removed "Jewish" from one of the names I submitted (Schönche).
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thank you
I know, I suggest the Sephardic category because not all Sephardi Jews speak Judeo-Spanish, various cultures are Sephardi, Including North African and Middle Eastern Jews. Yes many of them traditionally speaking used to speak Ladino but I already saw someone submit a Jewish name as Jewish and North African sepretly Additionally, sometimes you don't know to what category to assign a certain name, while Sephradi is an umbrella term.
I know, I suggest the Sephardic category because not all Sephardi Jews speak Judeo-Spanish, various cultures are Sephardi, Including North African and Middle Eastern Jews. Yes many of them traditionally speaking used to speak Ladino but I already saw someone submit a Jewish name as Jewish and North African sepretly Additionally, sometimes you don't know to what category to assign a certain name, while Sephradi is an umbrella term.
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If you want, you cam email the site mod at mike@behindthename.com about adding it. I emailed the email for adding Rusyn as a usage and it was added, because there were other usages on the site that were of the same frequency. If you think there should be a specification for Ashkenazi Jewish since it's different from other kinds of Jewish names, you can email there and it might be changed on the site.
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will do it
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I submit a lot of last names on this site. Is there any specific category Polish-Jewish last names should go in aside from just 'Jewish'?
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