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ArchivesI have a Question about the surname "Dee"...
Dee being either a short form of a name or taken from the Dee river in Scotland. It can be a first or second given name, and it's just English. But if it's a surname, it's different.
I posted a message about this being my Grandfather's mid. on a First Name site and someone told me that (as a surname) Dee comes from the Welsh dhu (meaning black if he has British heritage. I've always heard there was some black Dutch, [not to be racial, it's a long history I'll share another time :)])
I was hoping I could get some information. I don't think he [my Grandfather] would be able to tell me about his family trait due to entering Alzhiemers. Any information would be great, thanks!
I posted a message about this being my Grandfather's mid. on a First Name site and someone told me that (as a surname) Dee comes from the Welsh dhu (meaning black if he has British heritage. I've always heard there was some black Dutch, [not to be racial, it's a long history I'll share another time :)])
I was hoping I could get some information. I don't think he [my Grandfather] would be able to tell me about his family trait due to entering Alzhiemers. Any information would be great, thanks!
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Replies
Black Dutch was just another word for Cherokee. To keep from being forced out of their ancestral homes when a la Trail of Tears, so inventive Cherokee claimed to not be Cherokee, but instead, 'Black Dutch' and where thus allowed to stay. At least, this is according to my Native American History class at college. My family was 'Black Dutch.'
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Oh dear, I'm afraid that Native American history class was not giving out completely correct information. I am sure that there were some families of Cherokee descent who claimed to be "Black Dutch" in order to escape the prejudice against Native Americans. But originally the phrase "Black Dutch" just meant someone who was of German descent and had a dark complexion. Later it was expanded to many other people in the Appalachians who had darker complexions, including Melungeons. A similar phrase was "Black Irish". You must remember that when people back in the 18th century used the word "black" in reference to a person or group they were often talking about hair color, not skin color, and there are many people of pure European descent who have black hair.
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I truly appreciate your help, and that you study hard to help people, but what you said about the term "Black Dutch" were Germans with darker complexion;
Germans and Dutch (Hollanders) are very similar, but are of two differnet races, correct?
Like how the Chinese and Japanese people are similar, but are two totally different people.
I was told that Black Dutch, or Blue-Belly Dutch, were dutch people.
Their village got caught on fire and the ones who escaped were smothered with ashes and they appeared to be Black.
Please don't feel like I'm putting you down, I would love to get the accurate information if you have it and would really appreciate it alot! :D
Sincerely :)
Germans and Dutch (Hollanders) are very similar, but are of two differnet races, correct?
Like how the Chinese and Japanese people are similar, but are two totally different people.
I was told that Black Dutch, or Blue-Belly Dutch, were dutch people.
Their village got caught on fire and the ones who escaped were smothered with ashes and they appeared to be Black.
Please don't feel like I'm putting you down, I would love to get the accurate information if you have it and would really appreciate it alot! :D
Sincerely :)
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I think you probably are not from the USA or you wouldn't refer to the Germans and Dutch as two different "races"; in American English we tend to reserve the term "race" for the "big four" White (Caucasian), Black, Asian, and Native American. The Dutch and Germans are two different nationalities. But the German word for "German" is Deutsch, and in the 1700s in North America this caused confusion. We have the term "Pennsylvania Dutch" in the USA, which refers to people of the Mennonite and Amish faiths in Pennsylvania who are of German descent; their ancestors did NOT come from the Netherlands. The term "Black Dutch" goes back to the 1700s, when it was common to refer to people from all parts of Germany and the Netherlands as "Dutch."
I have never heard the phrase "Blue Belly Dutch." The story you tell seems like a "folk etymology" to me; a story made up to explain a word or name after the fact.
If you look at the following link you will see that there are at least seven different groups of people in the USA who have been called "Black Dutch" at one time or another. (By the way, I do not agree with the theory on this site that people with black hair and dark complexions in southern Germany must be descended from Roman soldiers from Africa! I think black hair has always been one of the hair color variations in all European groups.)
http://www.geocities.com/mikenassau/BlackDutch.htm
I have never heard the phrase "Blue Belly Dutch." The story you tell seems like a "folk etymology" to me; a story made up to explain a word or name after the fact.
If you look at the following link you will see that there are at least seven different groups of people in the USA who have been called "Black Dutch" at one time or another. (By the way, I do not agree with the theory on this site that people with black hair and dark complexions in southern Germany must be descended from Roman soldiers from Africa! I think black hair has always been one of the hair color variations in all European groups.)
http://www.geocities.com/mikenassau/BlackDutch.htm
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I hope I didn't offend you, but on the last message I was actually complimenting you :) And I am from the U.S. I never considered
Dutch and German being the some race just with a different culture (if that's what you are trying to say) .
Kind of like how Mexicans aren't Spanish, they speak spanish, and they're mixed with Indian and Spaniard, but it's offensive (somewhat) to call them spanish. Or a Puerto Rican speaks Spanish, but aren't spanish.
And I knew Dutch and German were very similar, but like how Chinese and Japanese are similar, but totally different. I always thought that German and Dutch, like Chine and Japan, were just similar, but of the opposite race. But now that it's all clear and OK.
Thank you, Mr. Cleveland Kent Evans :) :)
Dutch and German being the some race just with a different culture (if that's what you are trying to say) .
Kind of like how Mexicans aren't Spanish, they speak spanish, and they're mixed with Indian and Spaniard, but it's offensive (somewhat) to call them spanish. Or a Puerto Rican speaks Spanish, but aren't spanish.
And I knew Dutch and German were very similar, but like how Chinese and Japanese are similar, but totally different. I always thought that German and Dutch, like Chine and Japan, were just similar, but of the opposite race. But now that it's all clear and OK.
Thank you, Mr. Cleveland Kent Evans :) :)
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I was not offended -- sorry if my reply gave you that notion. :)
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I wasn't offended, I don't take offense from people here (especially UMMMMMM). Thank you Mr. C.K.E for the apology, and taking the time to reply and for not using cuss words (that's just immature.)
And I hope you're getting paid for your knowledge :)
And I hope you're getting paid for your knowledge :)
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Thank you BlackApple for clearing that up for me :)
That was a very interesting piece of History!
That was a very interesting piece of History!
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Thank you BlackApple for clearing that up for me :)
That was a very interesting piece of History!
That was a very interesting piece of History!
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