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Help[Opinions] Re: Jemima
in reply to a message by PrincessZ
It's quite true that the US is not the center of the universe and I can certainly understand others not quite getting the unfortunate history of the name Jemima here. It goes way beyond just associating it with pancakes and syrup. Calling someone "Aunt Jemima" is basically a racial slur. It's such a shame because I really do like the name. But I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole no matter where I lived.
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Are you saying that people actually go around calling other people 'Aunt Jemima'? The world gets odder, every time I look.
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Warning: intentional use of slurs for discussion purposes
I believe, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the use of "Aunt Jemima" as a slur would be in a similar vein to "Golliwog."
Eg: "That Golliwog over there" vs "Aunt Jemima over there." - at least, this is how I see it being used, as opposed to directly to face? I'm unsure. This is the closest comparison I can think of. The Golliwog's were used for Robinson's Marmalade in the 70s at least, maybe before then. It seems Aunt Jemima might be utilised in a similar fashion.
Is this accurate?
I believe, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the use of "Aunt Jemima" as a slur would be in a similar vein to "Golliwog."
Eg: "That Golliwog over there" vs "Aunt Jemima over there." - at least, this is how I see it being used, as opposed to directly to face? I'm unsure. This is the closest comparison I can think of. The Golliwog's were used for Robinson's Marmalade in the 70s at least, maybe before then. It seems Aunt Jemima might be utilised in a similar fashion.
Is this accurate?
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Words, including racial slurs, are regional.
For most people in the UK and Australia, Jemima is the doll on Play School.
For most people in the UK and Australia, Jemima is the doll on Play School.
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But now even regional words become known in other places. More people in the US know what a chav is now than even ten years ago, for instance.
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Yes, but 'chav' is a word which is a slur in and of itself, not a name. I would certainly never refer to someone as an "aunt Jemima" because that would clearly be a slur, but the name by itself, thoroughly removed from the context in which it was used as a slur, doesn't carry the same weight.
I'm struggling to articulate exactly what I mean, but I feel like insisting that the name should be off-limits everywhere is spreading the slur further rather than getting rid of it?
I'm struggling to articulate exactly what I mean, but I feel like insisting that the name should be off-limits everywhere is spreading the slur further rather than getting rid of it?
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Yes, I think that's what I struggled to articulate the other day also
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Yes I think Play School would be the most common association here. Play School ran for over two decades (60s - 80s). It might not be as well known with kids nowadays, but it was rerun for years in the 90s and into the early 2000s (I think, at least I saw it alongside Playdays (80s - 90s) and Rainbow (70s - 90s) - meaning they were all reruns in the early 2000s).
I highly doubt anybody is going to be running around calling people Aunt Jemima. I had NEVER heard that as a slur before it was brought up here, in fact, I didn't even know there was a controversy with the name. The British media simply didn't report it. Perhaps they might have if they needed a dead donkey to fill the air time, but with the virus going around and death tolls to report, it was simply dropped.
And if /I/ didn't hear of it, as a person with mild interest in such world affairs, then I highly doubt your common Tom, Dick and Harry will know. If they did, they'd probably forget about it. Because it isn't OUR syrup, it means nothing to us. If it was Lyal's Golden Syrup, a syrup brand known in the UK, then that'd catch ears, it'd remind them every time they see the syrup. But asking the random English person who "Aunt Jemima" is, they'd most likely shrug or ask "who??"
Here's an example;
Does anybody know that the logo for Lyal's Golden Syrup is literally a picture of a lion carcass with bees buzzing around it? Weird thing right? Pretty memorable. But you probably didn't, you've probably never seen the logo before. Because it's British and not American. We have a literal dead lion on our syrup, but you'd most likely entirely forget about this not long after you read this, because you don't see the logo on a regular basis. I might remember Jemima, but I'm a member of Behind the Name and I inherently have a more of a reason to remember it compared to the lass who works at the hairdressers who prefers to read fashion mags and watch beauty youtubers. She probably vaguely remembers Jemima from Play School, that cute toddler programme she used to watch as a young girl.
This is the difference.
I highly doubt anybody is going to be running around calling people Aunt Jemima. I had NEVER heard that as a slur before it was brought up here, in fact, I didn't even know there was a controversy with the name. The British media simply didn't report it. Perhaps they might have if they needed a dead donkey to fill the air time, but with the virus going around and death tolls to report, it was simply dropped.
And if /I/ didn't hear of it, as a person with mild interest in such world affairs, then I highly doubt your common Tom, Dick and Harry will know. If they did, they'd probably forget about it. Because it isn't OUR syrup, it means nothing to us. If it was Lyal's Golden Syrup, a syrup brand known in the UK, then that'd catch ears, it'd remind them every time they see the syrup. But asking the random English person who "Aunt Jemima" is, they'd most likely shrug or ask "who??"
Here's an example;
Does anybody know that the logo for Lyal's Golden Syrup is literally a picture of a lion carcass with bees buzzing around it? Weird thing right? Pretty memorable. But you probably didn't, you've probably never seen the logo before. Because it's British and not American. We have a literal dead lion on our syrup, but you'd most likely entirely forget about this not long after you read this, because you don't see the logo on a regular basis. I might remember Jemima, but I'm a member of Behind the Name and I inherently have a more of a reason to remember it compared to the lass who works at the hairdressers who prefers to read fashion mags and watch beauty youtubers. She probably vaguely remembers Jemima from Play School, that cute toddler programme she used to watch as a young girl.
This is the difference.
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